Superman and Black Adam vs The Runner...

Started by h1a87 pages

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
First, off, it's not ABC logic. Secondly, he didn't "out muscle Surfer" so you argument there is invalid. It was not a test of strenght, it was a test of power. If it were a test of strength, Surfer would have simply enhanced his strength. You need to get to know the character. Surfer can be as strong as he needs to be, but in this cases it was a comparison of power.
I don't know what you been smoking but Surfer tried to blast Runner and Runner held his arms by force to prevent it. It showed Runner being physically stronger. Also it implied that Runner could be hurt from Surfer's blast.

Superman's feats shit on that display. There is no way based off that Runner is beating Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know what you been smoking but Surfer tried to blast Runner and Runner held his arms by force to prevent it. It showed Runner being physically stronger. Also it implied that Runner could be hurt from Surfer's blast.

Superman's feats shit on that display. There is no way based off that Runner is beating Superman.

I don't smoke, but you make me want to start. You know about the scene because I posted it. And it's not a test of physical strength IMO being that Surfer said Runner's POWER, not strength, is greater than his. Surfer has strength, but he isn't a strength based character.

Originally posted by leonidas
an argument can easily be raised regarding your 'weakened' surfer theory. if you show the full scan, as opposed to the cropped one, you'll see the other elders suggest it's nothing more than his bruised ego that is talking, that he's making nothing more than a face-saving comment regarding runner's easy win over ss and his own loss. if you look at champ's fight against norrin, it is pretty clear ss didn't exactly have to push himself to win what was a very brief battle. even his battle against korvac was extremely brief. in short--take champ at his word if you must, but ss has fought FAR harder for FAR greater amounts of time against equally powerful opponents and not been considered 'weakened'. the other elders seem to agree with me.

as regards to invulnerability, he can't die. we've no real proof of the level of power that it would take to actually ko him, but he is certainly far above ss's level IMO. that opinion is bolstered by ss's own admission of such, not only against runner, but also against obliterator. he very specifically says obliterator's power is beyond him and obliterator agrees that ss's power cosmic is meaningless to him. that is why ss HAD to change his weapons. he couldn't win any other way. even thanos recently with his faux cube could do no more than banish the elders. and while it wasn't a true cube, it WAS exceptionally powerful.

in speed--sure supes has dozens of uber speed feats. but i'll take runner still. barring that pis-laden quasar arc of course where the speed of light was considered ultimate speed. lol too much versatility for runner. tp, emotional control, uber cosmic power well above ss, speed, intangibility, easily able to amp strength to cl100+ levels.....

i won't go feat-for-feat for obvious reasons. and me and everyone else on the forum already knows that nothing i or anyone else will say will change your stance in this, but those are MY opinions on runner and why i believe he is above both these guys.


I don't have to guess here who was right or wrong, I take the writing as proof. If there was a claim that Surfer was weakened, it was there for a reason. I've never seen surfer nearly die from falling to a planet and needing to be healed by someone like Mantis.

Even though he's never taken any attacks of that caliber? We're assigning durability on random? Really? Here is Runner trapped in a black hole and unable to escape untill Galactus saves his and Elders' collective asses

Say that is PIS too, why don't you? The fact is that Englehart didn't write either Surfer or Runner with lightspeed reactions. You can call everything PIS which doesn't suits your purpose but that wouldn't be truth.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Unbunch you panties, dude. You really should stop getting all emotionally involved about something that doesn't exist.

Haha, what?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't have to guess here who was right or wrong, I take the writing as proof. If there was a claim that what champion said was just his bruised ego talking, it was there for a reason. I've never seen surfer nearly die from falling to a planet and needing to be healed by someone like Mantis.

fixed. 🙂

Even though he's never taken any attacks of that caliber? We're assigning durability on random? Really? Here is Runner trapped in a black hole and unable to escape untill Galactus saves his and Elders' collective asses

never taken attacks of that caliber? lolwut? i could list the guys ss fought and beat prior to that book but that is basic knowledge. if you think he never took attacks of the caliber of.....champion punching him maybe 3 times? well, you should drop out of the thread. seriously. and i've seen ss ko'd by a friggin laser gun. he has FAR worse showings than that.

black holes are at times portrayed as uber, other times superman holds them in his hand. not sure what your point is. ss himself (who has also been shown to be able to easily escape black holes) was ALSO about to die. hell, even galactus was going to die. malestrom created a black hole that even the combined watchers and celestials couldn't stop. grandmaster was also going to be lost and he's displayed uber reality warping powers nearly on par with a skyfather. of course, the elders would have been fine because they, you know, couldn't DIE.

Say that is PIS too, why don't you? The fact is that Englehart didn't write either Surfer or Runner with lightspeed reactions. You can call everything PIS which doesn't suits your purpose but that wouldn't be truth.

again, so? if one writer views things differently that's his perogative. it doesn't render null and void previously established abilities. if you really want to go ahead and think runner can't reach the speed of light, welllll......good for you. it's a terrible stance but you can pick and choose to accept that like you can pick and choose to accept champ's word. you just have a huge problem acknowledging that other viewpoints are equally possible. maybe one day......

[QUOTE=14423247]

if you really want to go ahead and think runner can't reach the speed of light, welllll......good for you. it's a terrible stance but you can pick and choose to accept that like you can pick and choose to accept champ's word. you just have a huge problem acknowledging that other viewpoints are equally possible. maybe one day......

Let's just say he has discriminating tastes. ✅

Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :

Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :

This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :

Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.

Originally posted by zopzop
Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :

Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :

This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :

Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.

Good find my man, Champion was definitely trying to save face. It's all right there in pictures and print. Burden met.

Also, notice on the last panel how Nova says that Surfer would be a god with the bracelets.

Yeah, She-Hulk alone beat the crap out of Champion after he gave up the gem.

He's a joke w/o it these days.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, She-Hulk alone beat the crap out of Champion after he gave up the gem.

He's a joke w/o it.


In Champion's defense though, that fight took place in a She-Hulk comic and those things are more PIS/CIS ridden than Deadpool's crap.

Keep in mind Champion without the Gem, beat the crap out of many Marvel bricks in Marvel Two-in-One Annual #7.

Originally posted by leonidas
fixed. 🙂
Do you have any evidence that this was just bruised ego talking?

never taken attacks of that caliber? lolwut? i could list the guys ss fought and beat prior to that book but that is basic knowledge.
Yes.
if you think he never took attacks of the caliber of.....champion punching him maybe 3 times?
I was talking about Runner's showings of durability. He took a single blast from a guy who was holding back due to Runner's charms.
well, you should drop out of the thread. seriously.
Why?
and i've seen ss ko'd by a friggin laser gun. he has FAR worse showings than that.
So Runner=a laser gun? BTW that showing happened under the same writer.

black holes are at times portrayed as uber, other times superman holds them in his hand.
They were simply not fast enough to escape that.

It was just a matter of speed.

BTW Surfer has failed to get out of black holes three times.

not sure what your point is. ss himself (who has also been shown to be able to easily escape black holes) was ALSO about to die.
When did Surfer escape a black hole? It was just a normal black hole after Nova collapsed that sun.

hell, even galactus was going to die.
Because he was too weak at that point as infinity gems drained him.
malestrom created a black hole that even the combined watchers and celestials couldn't stop.
A special black hole. It was a normal black hole which consumed elders and surfer.
grandmaster was also going to be lost and he's displayed uber reality warping powers nearly on par with a skyfather. of course, the elders would have been fine because they, you know, couldn't DIE.
They could die in that realm as explained by Reed later. Elders couldn't get out of the black hole.

again, so? if one writer views things differently that's his perogative. it doesn't render null and void previously established abilities.
It does. in defenders 143 which you are talking about, it was explained that if Runner stops even for a moment he would die. That's obviously not the case in his later appearances.
if you really want to go ahead and think runner can't reach the speed of light, welllll......good for you.
I'm not thinking anything. Runner failed to achieve lightspeed twice.
it's a terrible stance but you can pick and choose to accept that like you can pick and choose to accept champ's word. you just have a huge problem acknowledging that other viewpoints are equally possible. maybe one day......
So, let me get this straight. You ignore Gruenwald's depiction of Runner because its PIS, you ignore Runner unable to achieve lightspeed under Englehart well because you can just ignore anything you don't like about a character and then arguing that Runner beats this team based upon the same writer's depiction of Runner? What kind of hypocrisy is that? If we ignore both Englehart's depiction of Runner and Gruenwald's too, we're only left with Starlin's runner and Runner from Defenders 143, which have no feats to beat this team. Unless you think walking on Sun's surface makes you unbeatable to Superman and Black Adam.

Originally posted by zopzop
Let's put an end to the Champion stuff now. Champion recovers from Thanos' humiliation. Finds a new amp "Bracelets of Power" and goes seeking revenge on Thanos. Thanos tps him away to some lifeless world and in anger Champion busts the planet :

Surfer and Mephisto/Nova come across this destruction and find Champion is the cause of it. Surfer asks how did he do this since he doesn't have the Power Gem anymore and Champion explains his new amp :

This suggests that Champion sans power up is NOT a planet buster. But it gets better.

They fight and Nova sees that this is going nowhere finds PG Drax and he one shots Champion. When Surfer asks why she did this (getting Drax), she suggests that she knows Surfer was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Champion but Drax has no such qualms :

Champion is NO match for the Surfer even with an amp (the Bracelets) so Champion was talking sh|t when he said Runner only beat Surfer because Surfer was weak from fighting him or Korvac.

not that it will mean much to abhi, but, yeah. champ was was talking chump.

Originally posted by zopzop
In Champion's defense though, that fight took place in a She-Hulk comic and those things are more PIS/CIS ridden than Deadpool's crap.

Keep in mind Champion without the Gem, beat the crap out of many Marvel bricks in Marvel Two-in-One Annual #7.

👆

That's why I edited my post to read: "He's a joke w/o it these days", because you're right-- back in the day Champ was beastly.

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

That's why I edited my post to read: "He's a joke w/o it these days", because you're right-- back in the day Champ was beastly.


Oh I agree. Nowadays he's a joke like the rest of the Elders 🙁 . Marvel really needs to get their sh|t together fast.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Do you have any evidence that this was just bruised ego talking?

😆

Champion is not the only bruised ego present.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I don't smoke, but you make me want to start. You know about the scene because I posted it. And it's not a test of physical strength IMO being that Surfer said Runner's POWER, not strength, is greater than his. Surfer has strength, but he isn't a strength based character.
Strength and power are the same thing in particular context. Doesn't matter because what is shown is what we go by.

My point is that scene alone doesn't justify Runner beating Superman considering Superman's feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Strength and power are the same thing in particular context. Doesn't matter because what is shown is what we go by.

My point is that scene alone doesn't justify Runner beating Superman considering Superman's feats.

And again, it's not that scene alone being used to formulate people's opinions. In his few appearances, The Runner's portrayal is above the herald tier. I don't know what that is so hard for you to accept.

Originally posted by leonidas
not that it will mean much to abhi, but, yeah. champ was was talking chump.

Haha, really?
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
😆

Champion is not the only bruised ego present.


Have you nothing else to do other than following me around?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If the Runner is anywhere near serious, this is not a contest. They only touch him if he wants them to. And unlike Flash, he has class 100 strength and is not grounded.
Do you people just make this stuff up.
1)Elders of the universe are not universally class 100+ in strength.
2) Speed force travel is not limited by ground travel. It's essentially a dimension in and of itself consisting of pure kinetic energy.
3) At least as far as the Flash's go their hitting power is not based on their physical strength in fact they can cause their fists to increase their mass near infinitely by accelerating their fists towards lightspeed so strength is moot in the comparison.
4) That said I don't think that the team could catch runner but if Runner gets tagged by anything from the pair its going to hurt.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
And again, it's not that scene alone being used to formulate people's opinions. In his few appearances, The Runner's portrayal is above the herald tier. I don't know what that is so hard for you to accept.
Portrayals? You mean ABC logic? Characters job or vary in comics.
What about feats?
What other showings convinces you that Runner can beat Superman?