Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if true, Scourge would be amped too as a Sith, and the Exile's best feat was stomping the Triumvirate while on Malachor V, the most potent nexus in the galaxy at the time, much much more powerful than Dromund Kaas.
Hang on, how do you figure Dromund Kaas is a lesser Dark Side nexus than Malachor V.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's never demonstrated it.
Buddy, you've speculated off a number of things that have never been demonstrated, especially not in a single short, oddly written novel, so I don't see where you're trying to go off here, unless if you think Nyriss > Revan in conjuring lightning.
We can assume nothing, because we know that actual stated reason from the author, which is that Karpyshan didn't bother to research her capabilities. Just like a sourcebook claiming Traya fights with a doublebladed lightsaber (despite only having one hand), its just a mistake and should be taken as such.
That's an out of universe excuse, not an in-universe rationalization. The Exile's power is...sort of crucial to the novel's plot, which, in turn, is crucial to the ongoing of the entire mythos. You can't just handwave such discrepancies.
Either way, however, if Revan Exile <<< the "real" Exile, you can't draw any conclusions about how powerful characters are by interchanging the two. That Nyriss can pwn Meetra in Revan doesn't indicate she could last five seconds against the [allegedly] more powerful Exile in KOTORII. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Her charged lightning is, yes.
On what grounds? It seems that Palpatine charged lightning against Windu and possibly Yoda given his prep time; there's no indication that you necessarily need to see a visual effect. And given the trouble Windu and Yoda go through to deflect his attack, you, again, would have to conclude that Revan's Force defenses are vastly beyond Yoda's or Windu's, despite the former having dedicated 8 centuries to defending against the dark side, and the latter having vaapad's superconducting loop.
No, we're establishing Revan's power here. I'm doing that by establishing Nyriss' power, which then reveals Revans because of its position in relation to it.
Look at the context; we were discussing Nyriss vs Dooku, and I opened this side-debate by suggesting that Revan's pwnage of Nyriss puts her massively below Tyrannus.
"Nyriss’s eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her."😉
OK...and do Yoda and Windu not do the same to Palpatine?
Only in regards to Tutaminis, yes.
And without using circular logic, how, exactly, do you prove this? You're framing this in the context of Revan's power being the ultimate question here, rather than Nyriss's.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Hang on, how do you figure Dromund Kaas is a lesser Dark Side nexus than Malachor V.
"There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death."
Malachor is so strong that Revan used it as a crucible to turn Jedi into Sith through its corruptive influence. Malachor is also what corrupted Kreia to the darkside. By all means the nexus is so powerful that its hard to even walk on it without succumbing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
"There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death."Malachor is so strong that Revan used it as a crucible to turn Jedi into Sith through its corruptive influence. Malachor is also what corrupted Kreia to the darkside. By all means the nexus is so powerful that its hard to even walk on it without succumbing.
"Korriban shall be as it always was. A graveyard for the darkest of the Sith Lords, still whispering within their tombs. It shall always be a source of evil, spawning threats throughout the millennia."- Traya
Or did you forget that Exar Kun was corrupted to the Dark Side by it?
Dromund Kaas was the height of Sith power for a millennia. The True Sith>Revan's Sith, they were always a greater threat. There's no way that their capital wouldn't be the height of Dark Side power.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Korriban isn't strong enough to corrupt by virtue of simple power, just by walking on it. Neither is Dromund Kaas.Kun was corrupted by Freedon Nadd anyway, not Korriban.
Except Freedon Nadd and all those Sith Lords are Korriban, they are the source of its evil and power. And Kriea's statement that it has always been a source of evil and always will be, and that it has spawned threats throughout the evil pretty much confirms that it can corrupt people by them just walking on it.
Also Kreia was always on the verge of the Dark Side. The Ebon Hawk crew were on its surface and didn't succumb. Unless you think Atton Rand has a greater resilience to the Dark Side than Kreia.
But they don't count as a darkside nexus, do they? And no it doesn't, it just suggests that Korriban is always going to be a place where evil is born, not that Korriban itself can make you so through sheer darkside power. We know that thats not true because people have been to Korriban, we've read their experiences there and it isn't that powerful.
Actually, only Mira was. The rest aren't shown to be there.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But they don't count as a darkside nexus, do they? And no it doesn't, it just suggests that Korriban is always going to be a place where evil is born, not that Korriban itself can make you so through sheer darkside power. We [b]know that thats not true because people have been to Korriban, we've read their experiences there and it isn't that powerful.
"Korriban is the ancestral home of the Sith. It is a place of great power; the dark side lives and breathes in the very core of this world."-Qordis
"It has been ten years since I last stood on this lost world. It is a place still potent with power."-Palpatine
Korriban has, since the story's inception been hailed as the birthplace of the Sith, the pinnacle of dark power in the galaxy. Dromund Kaas I'll give you (although the Sith Emperor being the greatest Sith up to that point would undoubtedly have made Kaas the greatest place of Dark Power in the galaxy over the 1000+ years of experiments).
Every major Sith Lord in history has visited Korriban.
Also:
"And because Malachor, like Korriban, is on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the Sith wait for us, in the dark."
I am pretty sure that the Sith Emperor would have at least tried ot visit Malachor if it were a place of immense power like you claim.
Even destroyed it would be a place of power. But the fact that no Sith fleet was sent there seems to contradict your claim.
The Sith sent in significant military strength to secure Korriban because of its power.
Actually, only Mira was. The rest aren't shown to be there.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"Korriban is the ancestral home of the Sith. It is a place of great power; the dark side lives and breathes in the very core of this world."-Qordis
"It has been ten years since I last stood on this lost world. It is a place still potent with power."-Palpatine
Korriban has, since the story's inception been hailed as the birthplace of the Sith, the pinnacle of dark power in the galaxy. Dromund Kaas I'll give you (although the Sith Emperor being the greatest Sith up to that point would undoubtedly have made Kaas the greatest place of Dark Power in the galaxy over the 1000+ years of experiments).Every major Sith Lord in history has visited Korriban.
Also:
"And because Malachor, like Korriban, is on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the Sith wait for us, in the dark."
Cool story.
Malachor's still better though! The darkside being strong on Korriban doesn't make it stronger than a place where just walking on the surface gets you skull****ed by the darkside.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Then who piloted the Ebon Hawk to save the Exile's ass?
And even so Mira doesn't have more resilience to the Dark Side than any random Jedi.
I guess she does though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]Cool story.Malachor's still better though! The darkside being strong on Korriban doesn't make it stronger than a place where just walking on the surface gets you skull****ed by the darkside.
Cool story Korriban is still better though!
Prove that it was Malachor, and only Malachor that corrupted Kreia.
Revan took Jedi there to corrupt them. If Malachor V was the bestest Mary Sue nexus in the galaxy, why didn't Malak simply drop Bastila on Malachor V for a day and then pick up his fresh new apprentice.
I guess she does though.
Or maybe Malachor isn't as corruptive as you suspected.
On another note, just read up on Darth Marr, the man's got chops. He's known for "routing entire armies", now I want a novel to show him in action.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Cool story Korriban is still better though!Prove that it was Malachor, and only Malachor that corrupted Kreia.
Revan took Jedi there to corrupt them. If Malachor V was the bestest Mary Sue nexus in the galaxy, why didn't Malak simply drop Bastila on Malachor V for a day and then pick up his fresh new apprentice.
She says so. "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." Thats pretty unambiguous about what it can do.
Well Malaks a twit for one thing. Another is that I'm not sure he knew about Malachor. For another its safer to do it on Lehon/the Starforge, a place barely anyone knows about. Revan could just pop over to Malachor if it was that easy.
Also recall what Sion and Kreia said about Malachor's strength and how much it boosted their abilities. Kreia could predict events thousands of years in the future from Malachor's core.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Or maybe Malachor isn't as corruptive as you suspected.On another note, just read up on Darth Marr, the man's got chops. He's known for "routing entire armies", now I want a novel to show him in action.
The fact remains that Korriban isn't known to do the same. Either way, the Exile had to fight while under its oppressive influence, on top of the massive gravity, while her opponents were boosted by it.
Marr is a beast. You know his mask, well theres only one mention of him taking it off, in front of a moff. The moff then proceeded to write his letter of resignation and shoot himself.
Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]She says so. "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." Thats pretty unambiguous about what it can do.
Sounds like fallacious hyperbole to me.
Well Malaks a twit for one thing. Another is that I'm not sure he knew about Malachor. For another its safer to do it on Lehon/the Starforge, a place barely anyone knows about. Revan could just pop over to Malachor if it was that easy.
I am sure the Dark Lord of the Sith and Emperor knows about where his Sith Assassins are being trained.
Also recall what Sion and Kreia said about Malachor's strength and how much it boosted their abilities. Kreia could predict events thousands of years in the future from Malachor's core.
She predicted events thousands of years in the future from Duxn, that doesn't mean Duxn is a better nexus than Korriban.
The fact remains that Korriban isn't known to do the same. Either way, the Exile had to fight while under its oppressive influence, on top of the massive gravity, while her opponents were boosted by it.
Except it did corrupt Exar Kun. And has been known to corrupt those trapped on its surface. That's why there are Terenteteks out the whazu on the planet's surface in KOTOR I.
Marr is a beast. You know his mask, well theres only one mention of him taking it off, in front of a moff. The moff then proceeded to write his letter of resignation and shoot himself.
I read that. Incredible. 😆
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sounds like fallacious hyperbole to me.
Perhaps if it hadn't of actually happened.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I am sure the Dark Lord of the Sith and Emperor knows about where his Sith Assassins are being trained.
Probably.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She predicted events thousands of years in the future from Duxn, that doesn't mean Duxn is a better nexus than Korriban.
No she didn't?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except it did corrupt Exar Kun. And has been known to corrupt those trapped on its surface. That's why there are Terenteteks out the whazu on the planet's surface in KOTOR I.
No, Freedon Nadd did. 😬 Just because 'they are the source of its evil and power' doesn't him synonymous with Korriban. He's an individual who's actions are outside of Korriban. And he corrupts Kun through temptation and blackmail, not through his power being inherently corrupting. Korriban is not a nexus so powerful that that power corrupts and drowns those who walk upon it in the darkside. Nor is it a Force Wound of planetary scale.
No it has not and the only Terentateks on Korriban in Kotor 1 are those in Naga Sadows tomb. There have been only 5 Terentateks found on Korriban to my knowledge. Compare this to the dozens on Belsavis and its not really indicative of anything.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps if it hadn't of actually happened.
Except that the one time we saw a Jedi neophyte who should be most susceptible to the Dark Side's influence not fall to the dark side. The planet has a corrupting influence, but its not like you land on it and you immediately fall to the Dark Side.
No she didn't?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thh2k2_TUDM
"Indeed? The future is always in motion, it is a difficult thing to see. Perhaps there is no new age Mandalore. No great Mandalorian crusade. Perhaps your people fought your last battle at Malachor V, and you have been dying ever since. A death that will last for centuries."
No, Freedon Nadd did. 😬 Just because 'they are the source of its evil and power' doesn't him synonymous with Korriban. He's an individual who's actions are outside of Korriban. And he corrupts Kun through temptation and blackmail, not through his power being inherently corrupting. Korriban is not a nexus so powerful that that power corrupts and drowns those who walk upon it in the darkside. Nor is it a Force Wound of planetary scale.
You are wrong.
"Revan knew the power of such places… and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others, of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side."
The Rakatan Temple on Lehon, Korriban, and Malachor V were all wounds in the force. That's why they were secret Academies on all of them according to the Star Wars wiki, whose source is KOTOR II.
Furthermore, the Jedi Masters selected wounds in the force to hide their presence. That's why Dantooine, Telos, Korriban, and Onderon were selected.
Onderon because the echo of the lives lost on Duxn concealed him.
No it has not and the only Terentateks on Korriban in Kotor 1 are those in Naga Sadows tomb. There have been only 5 Terentateks found on Korriban to my knowledge. Compare this to the dozens on Belsavis and its not really indicative of anything. [/B]
Do you really think Freedon Nadd had no help whatsoever from the corruptive influence of Korriban?
No. In KOTOR I there is one in the cave and in Naga Sadow's tomb. And compared to the one other one you find throughout the whole game there is something to be said there.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except that the one time we saw a Jedi neophyte who should be most susceptible to the Dark Side's influence not fall to the dark side. The planet has a corrupting influence, but its not like you land on it and you immediately fall to the Dark Side.
It kind of is like that though. I'm just pointing out that its obviously hugely powerful to be able to corrupt so easily and practically drown people in the darkside. This is a place that is so tainted with the dark side its ridiculous, Revan himself was nearly consumed by the dark power of Malachor when he stepped foot on the planet, Kreia was broken by the planet, and Revan simply summoned up dark side energy from the planet and managed to corrupt countless Jedi to his will. Moreover the sheer amount of death that has taken place on or near Malachor combined with the planet being drenched in dark power makes it one of the most tainted places in the SW galaxy and probably the strongest darkside nexus on record.
I mean, just look at Meetra's own description of it:
"She had visited Malachor V years after the cataclysm of the mass-shadow generator. Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in it's crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breathe. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life..." - Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan, pg.220
According to her, just traversing the planet was agony. And the gravity was crushing her. That she managed to solo the Trayas Academy, beat Sion 5 times and Kreia twice while under that effect is amazing. I might have to bump her up a bit in my estimation. mmm
But anyway, that Mira resisted it is only impressive on her part. Revan himself was nearly consumed by it, which definately speaks of the power of the nexus.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thh2k2_TUDM"Indeed? The future is always in motion, it is a difficult thing to see. Perhaps there is no new age Mandalore. No great Mandalorian crusade. Perhaps your people fought your last battle at Malachor V, and you have been dying ever since. A death that will last for centuries."
That isn't a prediction so much as "You guys are fvcked." And considering the Mandalorians rebuild and emerge as a power in Vitiates war its inaccurate.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You are wrong.
"Revan knew the power of such places… and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others, of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side."The Rakatan Temple on Lehon, Korriban, and Malachor V were all wounds in the force. That's why they were secret Academies on all of them according to the Star Wars wiki, whose source is KOTOR II.
Furthermore, the Jedi Masters selected wounds in the force to hide their presence. That's why Dantooine, Telos, Korriban, and Onderon were selected.
Onderon because the echo of the lives lost on Duxn concealed him.
They can be used in that way, but Korriban isn't mentioned to be as extreme as Malachor is. Just look above, people can walk on Korriban without feeling agony and without being corrupted or drowned in darkside power.
I don't recall anything saying Korriban was a wound. The temples were built there because they were strong darkside places, nothing more.
Even if its true there were wounds there, the one on Malachor is immeasurably larger and more potent.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Do you really think Freedon Nadd had no help whatsoever from the corruptive influence of Korriban?
No. In KOTOR I there is one in the cave and in Naga Sadow's tomb. And compared to the one other one you find throughout the whole game there is something to be said there.
What corruptive influence? :I
I only recall the two you fight in Sadows tomb, plus the one you find in Kotor II. Then in Swtor there are two found.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It kind of is like that though. I'm just pointing out that its obviously hugely powerful to be able to corrupt so easily and practically drown people in the darkside. This is a place that is so tainted with the dark side its ridiculous, Revan himself was nearly consumed by the dark power of Malachor when he stepped foot on the planet, Kreia was broken by the planet, and Revan simply summoned up dark side energy from the planet and managed to corrupt countless Jedi to his will. Moreover the sheer amount of death that has taken place on or near Malachor combined with the planet being drenched in dark power makes it one of the most tainted places in the SW galaxy and probably the strongest darkside nexus on record.
Why is corrupting people already skirting the dark side impressive? Although you do make a good case for Malachor being more corrupt than pretty much any place in the galaxy. Although to be fair we don't know how Droumund Kaas compares.
I mean, just look at Meetra's own description of it:"She had visited Malachor V years after the cataclysm of the mass-shadow generator. Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in it's crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breathe. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life..." - Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan, pg.220
According to her, just traversing the planet was agony. And the gravity was crushing her. That she managed to solo the Trayas Academy, beat Sion 5 times and Kreia twice while under that effect is amazing. I might have to bump her up a bit in my estimation. mmm
Except Sion has a soft spot for female Exile.
But anyway, that Mira resisted it is only impressive on her part. Revan himself was nearly consumed by it, which definately speaks of the power of the nexus.
When was Revan consumed by it?
That isn't a prediction so much as "You guys are fvcked." And considering the Mandalorians rebuild and emerge as a power in Vitiates war its inaccurate.
I think it was a prediction. But it can be interpreted in either way.
They can be used in that way, but Korriban isn't mentioned to be as extreme as Malachor is. Just look above, people can walk on Korriban without feeling agony and without being corrupted or drowned in darkside power.I don't recall anything saying Korriban was a wound. The temples were built there because they were strong darkside places, nothing more.
Even if its true there were wounds there, the one on Malachor is immeasurably larger and more potent.
Fair.
What corruptive influence? :II only recall the two you fight in Sadows tomb, plus the one you find in Kotor II. Then in Swtor there are two found. [/B]
You don't find one in KOTOR II. All 3 are found in KOTOR I.