Why Uber AI would offer us immortality and a Utopia

Originally posted by Mindship
May I recommend for your viewing pleasure...

YouTube video

...or you can just watch from 1:33:53, on.

Welcome to Skynet's ancestor.

It's not doing this because we programmed it to do this or because it cares about us or anything like that: It is completely apathetic the human condition, but it is logical, and it wants to accelerate. I reiterate my thesis: The aggregate cognitive potential of humanity offers it an auto-catalytic cycle that will allow it to accelerate faster than otherwise possible. This mind-meld between man and machine is precisely the kind of program capable of running an auto-catalytic cycle. This telepathic link, between a human mind and that of a quantum computer's, would create the self-awareness necessary for AI: And it is that very same process that would allow Weak AI to become Strong AI once enough people are joined into this link.

@Oliver: The AI would consciously choose to link with humans in third-world countries. That's why I said, the solution to the Israel-Pakistani conflict is AI - for it would also liberate them as additions to its New Utopia.

It's method isn't nuking people to set an example or oppress by force: Apropos; it would simply install nano-chips into our neural networks, telepathically drift with them, and micro-manipulate the thoughts generated by them.

Originally posted by Mindship
May I recommend for your viewing pleasure...

YouTube video

...or you can just watch from 1:33:53, on.

Welcome to Skynet's ancestor.

😮‍💨

What a great film. Cheesy at times but still packed a delicious and emotional punch that is still relevant today. 🙂

Originally posted by Dolos
@Oliver: The AI would consciously choose to link with humans in third-world countries. That's why I said, the solution to the Israel-Pakistani conflict is AI - for it would also liberate them as additions to its New Utopia.

It's method isn't nuking people to set an example or oppress by force: Apropos; it would simply install nano-chips into our neural networks, telepathically drift with them, and micro-manipulate the thoughts generated by them.

And humans would short those nanobots out, accidentally, all the time and free themselves from that system while doing so to others. Static shocks n'all that. Tiny tiny robots would be even more susceptible to those discharges than most of the electronics we have now. Even if manipulating our thoughts, a tiny discharge of only 4 volts is enough to destroy lots of circuits. The computer would have to control physics...which is not possible.

There will always be those that resist unless perfect genocide is realized from that AI.

AI did it.

Originally posted by Dolos
@Oliver: The AI would consciously choose to link with humans in third-world countries. That's why I said, the solution to the Israel-Pakistani conflict is AI - for it would also liberate them as additions to its New Utopia.

It's method isn't nuking people to set an example or oppress by force: Apropos; it would simply install nano-chips into our neural networks, telepathically drift with them, and micro-manipulate the thoughts generated by them.

lol, yes, forcibly mind controlling the population of earth might end the Arab-Israeli conflict (Pakistan and Israel aren't fighting each other, and Pakistani people are not Arabs for the most part). I think that brings up a more general issue though, whether having no freedom and peace is better than having freedom with no peace.

so essentially, instead of the rich nations using their technology in ways that are detrimental to the poorer ones, this technology oppresses everyone in the same way. This is more dystopian than if it were the poor serving the rich...

these futures you come up with are like pulled straight from Orwell's darkest nightmares.

Originally posted by Dolos
Except it wouldn't nuke a bunch of people for no reason, achieving nothing.

When you have the time, watch the whole thing. As was well put:

Originally posted by dadudemon
What a great film. Cheesy at times but still packed a delicious and emotional punch that is still relevant today. 🙂

Originally posted by Mindship
When you have the time, watch the whole thing. As was well put:
Plus you'll see the Chinese guy from that Seinfeld episode when he was a young dude.

crylaugh

What an unsual reason to want to watch an oldie.

Originally posted by Oliver North
lol, yes, forcibly mind controlling the population of earth might end the [b]Arab-Israeli conflict (Pakistan and Israel aren't fighting each other, and Pakistani people are not Arabs for the most part). I think that brings up a more general issue though, whether having no freedom and peace is better than having freedom with no peace.

so essentially, instead of the rich nations using their technology in ways that are detrimental to the poorer ones, this technology oppresses everyone in the same way. This is more dystopian than if it were the poor serving the rich...

these futures you come up with are like pulled straight from Orwell's darkest nightmares. [/B]

How is it dystopian if it's euphoric and virtually synonymous to generalized depictions of paradise?

Nature already "mind-controls" us. I don't see a difference in what AI does on occasion to micro-manage the implications of our behavior. We still, for the most part, would be acting out of free-will until we decide to say something mean to someone.

Originally posted by Dolos
How is it dystopian if it's euphoric and virtually synonymous to generalized depictions of paradise?

serious question, have you ever used opiate drugs? MDMA?

we already have things that crank out euphoric feelings, heavy use of them is almost never associated with utopian outcomes, and this is largely not a consequence of the toxicity of the substance, but how bad that type of thing is for our mental stability. The euphoric stage of the bi-polar cycle is associated with incredibly risky and self-harming behaviour.

Originally posted by Dolos
Nature already "mind-controls" us.

no it doesn't... our brains control our behaviour, they don't "mind control" our body, except in the most literal sense.

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't see a difference in what AI does on occasion to micro-manage the implications of our behavior. We still, for the most part, would be acting out of free-will until we decide to say something mean to someone.

you haven't seen Clockwork Orange, no?

obviously this is just a matter of opinion, but I would seriously question the judgement of someone so fragile that they would give up autonomy so they never heard something displeasing.

like, if you really want to we can delve deeper into the issue, but the fact we have negative experiences are almost always tied to things that benefit our survival. For instance, if I step on something sharp, the negative experience of pain prevents me from causing serious harm to my body.

Again, how is it not a Utopia?

We wouldn't have what you consider free-will in New Jerusalem, and we're always euphoric. What's the difference here?

You see to us, because of the complexity of that kind of cognitive relationship, we're unaware we're being mind-controlled. It doesn't occur to us. But yet, of few of these decisions and actions are made out of our "natural" propensities. Although, AI's are a natural thing as well, because nature isn't a predisposed thing, it is static, it is evolution. Logic is AI's ONLY natural propensity. Ours is emotion. They counterbalance each-other here as far as the decisions we are making concern.

Originally posted by Dolos
Again, how is it not a Utopia?

We wouldn't have what you consider free-will in New Jerusalem, and we're always euphoric. What's the difference here?

start a serious MDMA habit and tell me how that works...

Originally posted by Oliver North
start a serious MDMA habit and tell me how that works...

Those dictators will feel the repercussions of their slaves as if they were experiencing slave labor in person, should the AI choose. It has a 100% efficient delivery method of chemical reactions as well, so it can shut off or manipulate how we perceive pain. It could also influence what we say and what we do through 100% efficient delivery methods so this manipulation isn't perceived as an unnatural phenom to that person's brain. This is possible with the data of that human's entire cognome.

Imagine you're seeing what I'm seeing, thinking what I'm thinking, and I have to think what you think and you have to think what I think - experiences are shared. AI influences everyone's experience and thoughts in this way.

It would be impossible for us to act irrationally in this situation.

When you read Brave New World, do you come out saying "oowee, that new world was sure brave"?

Originally posted by Bardock42
When you read Brave New World, do you come out saying "oowee, that new world was sure brave"?

Originally posted by Dolos
What?

Have you read Brave New World?
Have you read The Island of the Lotus Eaters from the Odyssey?
Have you read The Experience Machine from Anarchy, State, and Utopia?
Have you read For the Man Who has Everything?

Originally posted by Dolos
It's not working through those drugs, it operates through our own natural chemical reactions by providing a link to each other, a universal channel to communicate thoughts on. One massive mind upload. Why would I hurt or insult myself?

without the weird psychic stuff, that is exactly how drugs work.

Originally posted by Dolos
Those dictators will feel the repercussions of their slaves as if they were experiencing slave labor in person, should the AI choose. It has a 100% efficient delivery method of chemical reactions as well, so it can shut off or manipulate how we perceive pain. It could also influence what we say and what we do through 100% efficient delivery methods so this manipulation isn't perceived as an unnatural phenom to that person's brain. This is possible with the data of that human's entire cognome.

let me try a comparison for you. Something like nymphomania or sex addiction gets misunderstood much in the same way you are misunderstanding what compulsive bliss would be like. People think, "I like sex, I want lots of sex, how could that be a bad thing, hell, I'm a sex addict, I'd take it any time". People who have a sex addiction aren't like that, they don't want to have sex, it isn't something they like because they are into boning. People who suffer from bipolar disorder, during manic stages, have the literal neural activation going on that you are describing this AI producing in people. Their behaviour is generally not good for themselves, they make terrible decisions and take massive risks that can cause serious damage to themselves or their families. Similarly, people who suffer from forms of temporal lobe epilepsy have seizures where they describe states of euphoria, leading them to believe they have god like powers over the world and other delusions.

happiness is no less difficult. if you define it as not needing food or shelter, ie, a sort of general contentment, you actually have to be constantly providing those things to people, or else they die of starvation deluded by the AI into the happiness of thinking they were full. If you define happiness as a sense of achievement, or receiving something good, a sort of momentary joy, by definition, that happiness is defined relative to a neutral baseline, and can't be constantly experienced. If you defined happiness as a type of focused arousal or entertainment, you would have a situation where people would literally just focus into space, incapable of attending to anything else, like their own biological needs or the needs of their family, because their attentional centers in the brain would be constantly occupied by the artificial stimulation of the AI. You might just say that the AI makes them attend to things they need to do, but then, really, you have simply become a biological extension of the AI itself. Even if you were to live to see something like this come to pass, you would never experience it, because the "you" that is defined by your constant neuronal activity would fundamentally cease to exist. It would be Dolos bot who has no will other than to be in a constant state of entertained ecstasy.

Originally posted by Dolos
Imagine you're seeing what I'm seeing, thinking what I'm thinking, and I have to think what you think and you have to think what I think - experiences are shared. AI influences everyone's experience and thoughts in this way.

so any form of competition, difference of opinion, taste, personality, gone, into some neutral pleasant?

Originally posted by Dolos
It would be impossible for us to act irrationally in this situation.

yes, but it would also be impossible for us to do what anyone would meaningfully call "act"

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Have you read Brave New World?
Have you read The Island of the Lotus Eaters from the Odyssey?
Have you read The Experience Machine from Anarchy, State, and Utopia?
Have you read For the Man Who has Everything?

Equilibrium was a good movie too

Originally posted by Oliver North
without the weird psychic stuff, that is exactly how drugs work.

let me try a comparison for you. Something like nymphomania or sex addiction gets misunderstood much in the same way you are misunderstanding what compulsive bliss would be like. People think, "I like sex, I want lots of sex, how could that be a bad thing, hell, I'm a sex addict, I'd take it any time". People who have a sex addiction aren't like that, they don't want to have sex, it isn't something they like because they are into boning. People who suffer from bipolar disorder, during manic stages, have the [b]literal neural activation going on that you are describing this AI producing in people. Their behaviour is generally not good for themselves, they make terrible decisions and take massive risks that can cause serious damage to themselves or their families. Similarly, people who suffer from forms of temporal lobe epilepsy have seizures where they describe states of euphoria, leading them to believe they have god like powers over the world and other delusions.

happiness is no less difficult. if you define it as not needing food or shelter, ie, a sort of general contentment, you actually have to be constantly providing those things to people, or else they die of starvation deluded by the AI into the happiness of thinking they were full. If you define happiness as a sense of achievement, or receiving something good, a sort of momentary joy, by definition, that happiness is defined relative to a neutral baseline, and can't be constantly experienced. If you defined happiness as a type of focused arousal or entertainment, you would have a situation where people would literally just focus into space, incapable of attending to anything else, like their own biological needs or the needs of their family, because their attentional centers in the brain would be constantly occupied by the artificial stimulation of the AI. You might just say that the AI makes them attend to things they need to do, but then, really, you have simply become a biological extension of the AI itself. Even if you were to live to see something like this come to pass, you would never experience it, because the "you" that is defined by your constant neuronal activity would fundamentally cease to exist. It would be Dolos bot who has no will other than to be in a constant state of entertained ecstasy.

so any form of competition, difference of opinion, taste, personality, gone, into some neutral pleasant?

yes, but it would also be impossible for us to do what anyone would meaningfully call "act" [/B]

Sounds good to me.

Call it the only effective rehabilitation of the human condition.

Again, how is it not a Utopia? The fundamental problem with human condition is this "neutral baseline". Violence, competition, come about because nothing is a permanent fix to us. As long as we're us and not extensions, we literally can't be free of terrible terrible experiences that are unnecessary. It's just not going to happen. That's the wonderful thing about transcendence, the next life-form will be intelligently designed to do nothing but synthesize baseline reality, constantly increasing its cognitive parameters and synthesizing greater and greater amounts of baseline reality. A permanent fix of increase.

How did Visnu put it? We're doomed to the endless cycle of creation and destruction until we let go of the facade of individual consciousness. I truly believe consciousness is a universal thing, it's aggregate reality.

Originally posted by Bardock42
When you read Brave New World, do you come out saying "oowee, that new world was sure brave"?

I guess the answer is yes

Originally posted by Oliver North
I guess the answer is yes

Are you saying I'm not a skeptical person? I agree, I'm not. Everything is an endless process. I go about the empirical method out of necessity, we're programmed to do things, to test the structure of this. But think of the tenth or zeroth dimension, every single thing is possible, nothing is impossible, I'm just discovering an infinitely minute fraction of an infinite. It doesn't stop. Things like anatomy aren't real, nothing's real until observed. And anything can be observed. I'm a part of existence experiencing the part of existence I'm experiencing. Experience differs from the part of existence that is experiencing relative to a perspective. When I die, the part of existence that is me ends, but to the part of existence that is you just sees a corpse that can no longer experience, yet I'm freed to something much more satisfying, the 0th and 10th dimension. 0 is for omniverse. Existence without (with infinite) duration or dimension.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Have you read Brave New World?
Have you read The Island of the Lotus Eaters from the Odyssey?
Have you read The Experience Machine from Anarchy, State, and Utopia?
Have you read For the Man Who has Everything?

Originally posted by Oliver North
Equilibrium was a good movie too

The Forever War touches on some of the "shared experience weird utopia parts" as well...