Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not by a considerable margin. Like 55/45. I'm sorry, but Filoni saying that focused Kenobi bests Maul and Opress because he's prepared emotionally this time is pretty damning to the argument that Maul is better than Kenobi.
DP used to vehemently repeat the same thing but finally conceded the logic of my argument. All Filoni says is that Obi-Wan wasn't going to lose that duel in that situation.
Not to mention that "that duel" ended with Maul KO'ing Obi-Wan with a Force b1tchslap when sufficiently motivated.
Then Shadow Conspiracy outright states the crowded environment hindered the brothers. Then you have the fact that Maul sought Kenobi's surrender, not to mention his confession in "The Lawless" that he never planned on killing Obi-Wan.
I don't know why we should take an outlier feat for Obi-Wan as the norm when the Obi-Wan camp outright refuses to give the same consideration to the outlier feat in season 3 when Savage embarrassed Obi-Wan and Anakin together.
The same Savage who has "only grown more powerful" since leaving Dooku's service per The Clone Wars Episode Guide.
Camp Kenobi's argument hinges on lies and double standards. I can accept Obi-Wan being better than Savage and equal to Maul as a duelist, but Maul is unquestionably the more powerful and skilled Force user.
Originally posted by ares834
Because Savage didn't beat Anakin or Kenobi....
Savage scored the only visible blows, including the final one, throwing both Kenobi and Skywalker to the floor and laying waste to Dooku's droids. Let's not pretend it was a stalemate or an impressive showing for either Jedi.
Originally posted by ares834
Where am I pretending it's an impressive showing by the Jedi?That said, it wasn't nearly as dominant as you make it out to be. Heck, in their first duel Anakin tackles Savage rather than strike him down.
It's at least as dominant as Kenobi's performance against the brothers in "Revival." At least Maul Force-smacked Obi-Wan twice then. Anakin and Obi-Wan didn't get one hit in on Savage.
I'm perplexed that your view of this is so distorted.
Originally posted by ares834
No, it's not.
😐
Originally posted by ares834
Kenobi's duel has Savage getting his leg cut off,
Kenobi's duel with Anakin ended with the amputation of three limbs. Is he more powerful than Anakin?
Originally posted by ares834
the Sith retreating,
Because one was wounded and Maul's plans were collapsing around his ears. Obi-Wan fled from Grievous during the season 5 Youngling arc. Is Grievous a better duelist?
Originally posted by ares834
and confirmation that Kenobi won. It's not really comparable.
We have visual confirmation of Obi-Wan being b1tchslapped with impunity and buried under rubble. Does that not register at all with you? You're responding with a politician's deflection and, as the polisci geek, I'm offended. uhuh
😐
I'm not arguing that Kenobi is superior to the brothers or anything like that. Merely that his performance against the brothers was better than Savage's against the Jedi. So your Anakin point it moot.
As for you Grievous point, once again I'm not saying Kenobi is superior. However, retreating typically signifies defeat. And yes, I would say Kenobi was bested by Grievous in that encounter.
He was hit badly, not saying otherwise. What I am saying is that he won unlike Savage did against the two Jedi.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
DP used to vehemently repeat the same thing but finally conceded the logic of my argument. All Filoni says is that Obi-Wan wasn't going to lose [b]that duel in that situation.Not to mention that "that duel" ended with Maul KO'ing Obi-Wan with a Force b1tchslap when sufficiently motivated.
Then Shadow Conspiracy outright states the crowded environment hindered the brothers. Then you have the fact that Maul sought Kenobi's surrender, not to mention his confession in "The Lawless" that he never planned on killing Obi-Wan.
I don't know why we should take an outlier feat for Obi-Wan as the norm when the Obi-Wan camp outright refuses to give the same consideration to the outlier feat in season 3 when Savage embarrassed Obi-Wan and Anakin together.
The same Savage who has "only grown more powerful" since leaving Dooku's service per The Clone Wars Episode Guide.
Camp Kenobi's argument hinges on lies and double standards. I can accept Obi-Wan being better than Savage and equal to Maul as a duelist, but Maul is unquestionably the more powerful and skilled Force user. [/B]
Honestly we've been over this several times. I will concede that Maul is a superior force user, but I do believe Obi-Wan is a better duelist than Maul. And with Obi-Wan and Anakin, its different, Kenobi and Skywalker walked away with all their limbs intact and no permanent injuries. Savage walked away without an arm and a leg broken.
To me, trying to argue that Maul's saber is better than Kenobi is almost as bad as those trying to state that TPM Kenobi is >Maul.
It's like in fencing. Obi-Wan and Maul and Savage were in a fencing match and in round 1 Kenobi got forced back that doesn't mean that he loses points. In round 2 Kenobi lands blows on his opposition which is what he did against Savage, when it comes to all out (or the way how it'd be judged) Kenobi would score a technical win.
Yes Savage and Maul were at a disadvantage in an enclosed space. But Kenobi was already at an even greater disadvantage because it was 2v1. This to me just proves that Kenobi is a faster, more intelligent, and more adaptable and to an extent superior swordsman to Maul.
Force Mastery it goes the other way though. In all out Kenobi barely edges out Maul.
Originally posted by ares834
I'd recommend watching TPM. Some pretty cool Palpatine scenes in there.
When I was younger the Prequels were great. But now that I am older I can't bare the acting and bad writing. Palpatine is very obviously making powerplays and the Jedi and everyone else who's wise do shit all to stop it.
AOTCs is the worst offender.
"The Senate must grant the chancellor emergency powers"
"If only Senator Amidala were here."
"Meesa can do that."
Jedi Masters: Seems legit.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I have to agree with KT on this one. Kenobi's fight against Maul and Opress was a win for Kenobi. That being said, Kenobi certainly isn't far above Maul. But he is above him if we go by showings especially considering Maul's only win against Kenobi was when the latter was tired and exhausted.
Yeah but we shouldn't just go by Maul vs Kenobi fights. We should go by all the fights involving Maul, Opress, Kenobi, Skywalker and Ventress.
If we do that then it seems to me that overall in terms of power: Skywalker > Maul > Kenobi/Opress >/= Ventress.
And yes I'm putting Kenobi and Opress approx on par. Kenobi is obviously the superior duelist(at least on par with Maul), but Opress is undoubtedly much more powerful in the Force and physically much much stronger.
Whilst I can't give either of Kenobi or Opress more than an edge over Ventress given the past duels of Kenobi vs Ventress.