PoD Bane runs the gauntlet
Bane by Rule of Two is typically rated among the top dogs of the mythos. But what about his incarnation in the first book of his trilogy, when he's had perhaps a year or two of formal training?
30 minutes breaks.
1. TPM Obi Wan
2. AotC Anakin
3. Agen Kolar
4. TPM Qui Gon Jinn
5. TPM Darth Maul
6. RotS Obi Wan
7. RotS Dooku
8. Yoda
Nah, but fo realz, the quote you're talking about says 'As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation', which indicates a viable (and in my opinion more convincing) interpretation that its referred to them gaining more force powers with each generation, not that they're getting more powerful with each generation.
So, no, Maul is not canonically more powerful unless you think he's also more powerful than Sidious as well. 😬
I'm aware what the quote says (I provided it lol). But given that the very foundation of the Rule of Two was centered around each subsequent generation surpassing (not merely replacing) the preceding one, I believe my interpretation is correct: the Sith simply grew more powerful, be it in the number of accumulated powers or the enhancement of preexisting abilities, or a combination of both.
In either case, I would regard Maul as more powerful (or at the very least, potentially more powerful) than Sidious if we didn't already know that Maul wasn't more powerful than Sidious.
Sidious is explicitly defined as an exception, whereas Bane isn't.
I stand by my decision.
The quote specifically says that their 'powers' grow as their knowledge does. Overall Force power is unrelated to knowledge, so I don't see how you could interpret it the way you are. The correct interpretation appears to me that their knowledge of the darkside and catalogue of powers grew over generations. The Rule of Two may be centered around that concept, but it isn't like its universal law or something, wherein they always find a Force User powerful enough to surpass the preceding generation. They can surpass them in other ways. Cognus for instance isn't mentioned as being that strong, but her Force-dulling ability is potent despite that. Or as I said, force knowledge. Or just having a specific skillset thats effective against their master, like how Zannah defeated Bane despite him being her marked superior.
Also I re-posted the exact quote so that others could see the exact wording and not be taken in by your suggestion that its a flat-out statement of them growing more powerful over time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The quote specifically says that their 'powers' grow as their knowledge does.
I'm aware. Remember, I've known about the quote longer than you. But the term's plurality doesn't undermine my assertion.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Overall Force power is unrelated to knowledge, so I don't see how you could interpret it the way you are.
According to whom? The reborn Emperor "studied the dark side to become even more powerful" according to The Ultimate Visual Guide.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The correct interpretation appears to me that their knowledge of the darkside and catalogue of powers grew over generations.
But none of that precludes the enhancement of more universal abilities in the intervening generations.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Rule of Two may be centered around that concept, but it isn't like its universal law or something, wherein they always find a Force User powerful enough to surpass the preceding generation. They can surpass them in other ways. Cognus for instance isn't mentioned as being that strong, but her Force-dulling ability is potent despite that. Or as I said, force knowledge. Or just having a specific skillset thats effective against their master, like how Zannah defeated Bane despite him being her marked superior.
Zannah defeated Bane legitimately and even if he were "more powerful" than she at the time of his death, that doesn't preclude her from surpassing him as the years went by, just like Darths Plagueis & Sidious.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I re-posted the exact quote so that others could see the exact wording and not be taken in by your suggestion that its a flat-out statement of them growing more powerful over time.
Their powers increased, which means that they were more powerful. Commensurate with Bane's vision of the Rule of Two, this is the most reasonable interpretation.
I stand by my decision, Bane falls at Maul at the very latest. He probably makes it past TPM!Obi-Wan, though.
Originally posted by Nephthys
His lightning was already potent enough to disintegrate,
This doesn't really put him on Dooku's level. Plenty of sith can disintegrate with lightning.
he's capable of tearing through the barriers of Sith Lords and utterly owning them,
Said Sith Lords are weaklings by Dooku's standards. Bane and Kas'im are the only sith of that era of any noteworthy power. Also remember that Dooku pulled off a similar feat against Obi Wan, and against three nightsisters while drugged.
he's extremely skilled 'beyond forms',
Context: Kas'im said that while teaching the young Bane a basic tenant of Force/saber dueling that Dooku, being a legendary lightsaber fanatic, certainly would have grasped. Notice that by that point, Bane still wasn't entirely ready to defeat Sirak yet.
plenty fast and strong
...this is supposed to put him on Dooku's level? Seriously?
and he has the temple destruction feat.
Impressive, but I doubt Dooku would give him time to charge up a Force wave.
Dooku at this point has vastly superior feats, taking on Yoda and holding his own, and Bane doesn't do very well against unfamiliar saber forms; Tyranus rivals Kas'im in technical skill.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm aware. Remember, I've known about the quote longer than you. But the term's plurality doesn't undermine my assertion.According to whom? The reborn Emperor "studied the dark side to become even more powerful" according to The Ultimate Visual Guide.
But none of that precludes the enhancement of more universal abilities in the intervening generations.
Zannah defeated Bane legitimately and even if he were "more powerful" than she at the time of his death, that doesn't preclude her from surpassing him as the years went by, just like Darths Plagueis & Sidious.
Their powers increased, which means that they were more powerful. Commensurate with Bane's vision of the Rule of Two, this is the most reasonable interpretation.
I stand by my decision, Bane falls at Maul at the very latest. He probably makes it past TPM!Obi-Wan, though.
Nah the other interpretation is still right and just as valid as yours.
Also, you *******, in your PM you said you only started busting my balls in reaction to my double standards but I was going through old threads and here you started acting like a stubborn jackass for no reason. You filthy liar. I'm definitely bringing that up when I can stomach your stupid mountain of words.
Peace, guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM
Now, let's get back to talking about Bane killing people, until he gets killed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah the other interpretation is still right and just as valid as yours.
😂
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, you *******, in your PM you said you only started busting my balls in reaction to my double standards but I was going through old threads and here you started acting like a stubborn jackass for no reason. You filthy liar. I'm definitely bringing that up when I can stomach your stupid mountain of words.
That was me busting your balls in reaction to your double standards. Nobody said anything about a double standard post from you had to directly precede a ball busting post from me.
Originally posted by Master Han
Peace, guys.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM
Now, let's get back to talking about Bane killing people, until he gets killed.
He definitely dies at 5, almost certainly makes it past 1.
I don't agree with the Tempest's claim that each successive generation of sith is absolutely more powerful than the last (this may indicate a general trend, as well as "power" in other categories), but it's actually not inconceivable that Maul could take down Bane.
Remember that all of the Sith Lords Bane pwns are weaklings in the grand scheme of things. And the narrator's description of his fight against Kas'im suggests that he only did so well initially because he intimately knew all of the blademaster's moves. Sort of like how Obi Wan did so well against Anakin.