PoD Bane runs the gauntlet

Whoops, double post.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Seems reasonable. Though I do question POD!Bane's telekinetic prowess; the only noteworthy feat I recall is Bane's demolition of the temple on Lehon, which is an extraordinarily powerful nexus of Force energy. I see no reason to conclude that he'd be able to duplicate the feat on neutral ground.

To say nothing of the fact that the wave was resisted by Kas'im, whose Force strength and mastery are unattested among the Brotherhood noted to be collectively weak.

Agen Kolar, one of the best in the golden age of the Jedi arts, would very likely be able to resist such telekinesis, though that is more inference than conclusive fact.

He likely could. As I said, Vos' feat makes him at least Bane's equal in terms of power, and Vos never did anything to Kolar telekinetically.

That said, I don't think Force powers will come in play.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
True. I'm thinking more of crushing Qordis' telekinetically, but then we could point out that Qordis is utterly featless.

That's true. And while Qordis enjoys high standing among the Brotherhood, Bane muses more than once that the Brotherhood is simply fodder in the grand scheme of things.

So I might be willing to award Bane superior telekinetic powers (just as I would award him superiority over Kas'im), but not to the extent that it would prove a decisive advantage.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's true. And while Qordis enjoys high standing among the Brotherhood, Bane muses more than once that the Brotherhood is simply fodder in the grand scheme of things.

So I might be willing to award Bane superior telekinetic powers (just as I would award him superiority over Kas'im), but not to the extent that it would prove a decisive advantage.

Having questioned his chances of victory over Kolar, I find myself questioning whether he can triumph over Obi-Wan.

Kenobi did give Maul, Bane's superior by a multitude of generations, hell after Qui-Gon's defeat.

Questionable interpretations aside we have every reason to believe that the Brotherhood was among the finer Sith orders from a combat standpoint in the organization's history.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Having questioned his chances of victory over Kolar, I find myself questioning whether he can triumph over Obi-Wan.

Kenobi did give Maul, Bane's superior by a multitude of generations, hell after Qui-Gon's defeat.

But I question his victory over Obi-Wan as well. Jinn is Bane's better as well, and I find it hard to believe that, given their comparable performance against Maul in TPM, that Jinn is Kenobi's superior by a big nod.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He did draw on the dark side though.

But I question his victory over Obi-Wan as well. Jinn is Bane's better as well, and I find it hard to believe that, given their comparable performance against Maul in TPM, that Jinn is Kenobi's superior by a big nod.

That's true. But while rageless!Obi-Wan was not Maul's equal in combat, he wasn't exactly a non-factor even when confined to his natural aptitude.

I suppose, just on the safe side, I'll maintain my stance that Bane defeats Obi-Wan after a grueling battle.

You agree Bane loses at Jinn though?

Well we know Jinn was among the best; The Jedi Academy Training Manual states that Jinn is a superior duelist to Anoon Bondara, himself considered one of the best.

That Jinn was elite in the golden age of Jedi combat suggests superiority over Bane as a duelist, yes.

Interesting about the Jinn>Anoon fact.

I've gotten more respect for Jinn the last week. I found a passage in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia which confirms him as one of the most skilled Jedi ever produced. He's certainly not the fodder that some think he is.

I have reported you Intrepid for blatant trolling.

damn

Inappropriate Post:
Alert moderators instantly to any abuse.

Reason: She has been trolling me relentlessly, I know you have also had problems with her Ushgarak, and I suggest at the very least that she get a very public warning in the Battle Bar.

Send Report Now!

Jesus Neph call yourself my padawan! I can see that you're online and you haven't backed me up once.

Neb, you troller!

LMAO

Originally posted by noitseuq
Jesus Neph call yourself my padawan! I can see that you're online and you haven't backed me up once.

Theres so many thing I want to respond to in this thread its a little overwhelming. Typing up a reply to Han atm.

Originally posted by Master Han
Is disintegration (can he even do that by PoD?) above disarming three nightsisters while drugged?

Uh, yes. By quite a freaking lot? Its a good show of skill perhaps, but in terms of actual power and destructive ability not very impressive to my mind at all. The fact is that if Dooku was really that proficient in Force Lightning he wouldn't have required multiple blasts to keep Savage away from him. Put Bane against Savage in that fight and he'd be dead after a single blast.

Originally posted by Master Han
A position more of authority than power; Kas'im was subordinate to Qordis, yet their relative performances against Bane make it clear that the latter would lolroflstomp the latter.

It's likely that AotC Obi Wan > Qordis (by a lot), and Dooku toys with him.

That is true, though remember that Qordis is the headmaster of a Sith academy. Authority is power in that case. If Qordis was a weakling his students would obviously challenge him. And these are the most powerful Sith in the galaxy he's training.

I don't really see much from AotC Obi-Wan to make me rate him that highly. Qordis' position gives me enough reason to think of him as at least being a decently powerful Sith Lord. Mediocre. AotC Obi-Wan is above that, but hardly by a lot.

Originally posted by Master Han
I didn't say you said that, and so had Obi Wan to Qui Gon Jinn. This doesn't put Obi Wan on his master's level by TPM.

True, but Kas'im possesses a lot more lightsaber knowledge than Qui-Gon does. And Bane did surpass Kas'im. Perhaps not in overall skill, but in lightsaber ability he did.

Originally posted by Master Han
In physical strength? He's above Dooku, not that it's terribly important. In speed? I dunno, Dooku can keep up with Yoda and speed-blitz Obi Wan.

I don't think he can speed-blitz Obi-Wan personally. He wasn't able to speed-blitz AotC Anakin (else he wouldn't duel him until he's tired), so I see no reason he could speedblitz RotS Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Master Han
Yeah, I wasn't exactly thinking about such a loophole. Resting is just for resting. A no-holds-barred Dooku, IMO is dropping Bane in a matter of seconds.

Lawl, no way is Bane getting dropped in seconds bro.

Originally posted by Master Han
Dooku's feats are vastly superior; he's given Yoda a good fight, and defeated even Anakin and Obi Wan together before the former went in teh zone.

Meanwhile, Dooku knows not only Makashi (which Bane couldn't have really known to any degree beyond mild proficiency, given his limited training), but pretty much every lightsaber form. He, again, rivals Kas'im, while being far more powerful in the Force.

They're not vastly superior. Bane is his marked superior in terms of Lightning and is high-class with his lightsaber ability and telekinesis.

That isn't the same thing. Bane couldn't deal with Dual Lightsabers because he's never faced it before and had no idea what to expect or what it could do. Dooku still only uses a single lightsaber, so even if he's somewhat unfamiliar with Makashi (which is unlikely, I'm sure Kas'im would have used it against him enough for him to be familiar with fighting it. In fact, I seem to recall that Farfalla used Makashi in his fight with Bane) he's not going to be overwhelmed with possibilities.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Yes. Bane in PoD isn't that impressive. He's good, just not very good. His only good feat is defeating Kas'im, who actually was handing him his ass in the sabers department.

Kas'im only gained the upperhand through a gap in Bane's ability that he'd created. In a straight lightsaber duel Bane was beating him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this is the case, barring of course that Agen only achieved elite status among the order's swordsmen post-AOTC. Assuming he's roughly the same skill level, Bane probably drops here.

Still thinking he makes it past TPM!Obi-Wan after a tough fight.

Nah man, Bane is more powerful than Agen. I don't see how Agen would be able to block his lightning, which is more powerful than anything Agen has come up against.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
To say nothing of the fact that the wave was resisted by Kas'im, whose Force strength and mastery are unattested among the Brotherhood noted to be collectively weak.

Agen Kolar, one of the best in the golden age of the Jedi arts, would very likely be able to resist such telekinesis, though that is more inference than conclusive fact.

The wave was resisted by Kas'im.... because its a wave. By its very nature, only a small part of the attack actually struck Kas'im. If Bane chose to focus that amount of power into a more direct, focused attack I'm not seeing Kolar blocking it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's true. And while Qordis enjoys high standing among the Brotherhood, Bane muses more than once that the Brotherhood is simply fodder in the grand scheme of things.

So I might be willing to award Bane superior telekinetic powers (just as I would award him superiority over Kas'im), but not to the extent that it would prove a decisive advantage.

Theres nothing suggesting the Brotherhood was especially shitty in terms of actual combat. Bane thinks that they'd lost their way, not that they flat-out suck. One only has to look at Kaox Krul to see that the Brotherhood has some premier combatants, not to mention Kopecz who killed an entire squad of the Republic finest before they could fire more than once.

On top of Bane lightning and with as you say roughly the same skill level theres no advantage Agen has over Bane that enables him to win.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well we know Jinn was among the best; The Jedi Academy Training Manual states that Jinn is a superior duelist to Anoon Bondara, himself considered one of the best.

That Jinn was elite in the golden age of Jedi combat suggests superiority over Bane as a duelist, yes.

Jinn may be technically skilled, in Ataru I believe, but by his own admission he was old and outside his prime. Besides which is that he has no force feats that stand out as anything special. Or even mediocre if I think about it.

Did he even do anything with the Force in that movie? mmm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah man, Bane is more powerful than Agen. I don't see how Agen would be able to block his lightning, which is more powerful than anything Agen has come up against.

Bane may very well be more powerful, but as you yourself often proclaim, power is not an inherently decisive advantage in the context of a duel.

Agen is armed with his lightsaber, which should be adequate to contain and deflect Bane's energies unless otherwise noted.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The [b]wave was resisted by Kas'im.... because its a wave. By its very nature, only a small part of the attack actually struck Kas'im. If Bane chose to focus that amount of power into a more direct, focused attack I'm not seeing Kolar blocking it.[/b]

Perhaps, but there again, it was a power displayed on a potent Force nexus. I see no reason to believe Bane could harness such energy on neutral terrain.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres nothing suggesting the Brotherhood was especially shitty in terms of actual combat. Bane thinks that they'd lost their way, not that they flat-out suck. One only has to look at Kaox Krul to see that the Brotherhood has some premier combatants, not to mention Kopecz who killed an entire squad of the Republic finest before they could fire more than once.

Bane's musings would appear more persuasive than baseless appeals to the reverse. That Kaox Krul managed to kill an entire squad of what appear to be Forceless mooks is not inherently impressive.

Originally posted by Nephthys
On top of Bane lightning and with as you say roughly the same skill level theres no advantage Agen has over Bane that enables him to win.

I meant if we assume AOTC Agen's skill level is "roughly the same" to his ROTS incarnation. I don't believe POD!Bane is as skilled as Agen Kolar.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jinn may be technically skilled, in Ataru I believe, but by his own admission he was old and outside his prime. Besides which is that he has no force feats that stand out as anything special. Or even mediocre if I think about it.

Did he even do anything with the Force in that movie? mmm

Very few Force feats indeed.