Feats vs Logic

Originally posted by carver9
The question should be "in a forum fight should there be an argument on Superman blitzing Hulk a thousand times before he can react, or Surfer opening a Black Hole in Superman head or turning his costume to kryptonite or trapping him inside his board...or should we debate on Thor creating a million tornados with the power of a thousand winds against Superman while raining down magical lightning while at the same time having Mjlonir speed blitzing him left and right.

None of these showings have been displayed in a comics but both Thor and Surfer are capable of this.

This.

This isn't a one way street, if these rules apply for speed then we need to add them for versatility as well which means that someone like Surfer who has both speed and versatility should mud stomp someone with any type of weaknesses. This is simple.

You quote yourself, and in the quotest post you show laughable bias.

You'd be an excellent Sith.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
I would argue that anyone capable of FTL travel would also have FTL reflexes. In the comic universes space isn't nearly as empty as it is in the real world. With thousands of space faring civilizations and entire planetary systems surrounding almost every star in the Marvel/DC universes anyone traveling at faster than light speed would have to react with ftl reflexes to anything that is coming at them. If I am traveling at 60mph and the car coming at me is traveling at the same speed, then reflex speed would have to be at least 120mph to avoid a collision.

FTL reflexes involve reaction to things moving at light speed within battle distance. reacting to something further away than battle distance doesn't require FTL reflexes. For example, if you are flying toward the sun at light speed (which is the same as the sun heading towards you at light speed) then you have a total of 8 minutes to react.

In a nutshell, if you can react in less than a 6 nanoseconds to an attack launched 2 meters away from you then you have FTL reflexes.

Originally posted by carver9
This.

This isn't a one way street, if these rules apply for speed then we need to add them for versatility as well which means that someone like Surfer who has both speed and versatility should mud stomp someone with any type of weaknesses. This is simple.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman doesn't have to blitz at all. He can hit Hulk one time every 10 seconds. But he uses speed and power to do so and speed to avoid Hulk's attacks.

Surfer opening a black hole in someone's head would kill them. Surfer doesn't kill unnecessarily. I'm not sure if Surfer has the capability to put a black hole inside someone. I know he can create one next to them though. Also you have the problem of creativity. Does Surfer even have the creativity to even think of that in a battle. I know I didn't before it was mentioned by a poster a long time ago.

Originally posted by ODG
There are plenty of times Superman has led with his face, because he has said so on-panel. There are innumerable times where he isn't letting them hit him just because. How you decide to manufacture excuses is your own cup of tea. My suggestion is that you stop reading comics because they make Superman stupid in every issue for *gasp* getting punched. You must be infuriated every single time it happens. Or you're not. In which case, think about it. Read what I wrote. I am not here to prove a negative: Superman cannot instantly defeat a Hulk-class foe with 1000 punches before they could react. That is not what I said. What I argued is that Superman has never done so. That is a fact, and there isn't an argument against it. It's an undeniable fact you keep trying to cover up with allusions, illusions, strawmans and wishful thinking. And the import of that fact is what you're trying to avoid here:

[b]IF Superman has never done it before, THEN you cannot argue that he definitely would do it if he only just 1) stopped holding back and 2) started cutting loose with his powers and superspeed.

Superman has stopped holding back in fights before. Many times. Superman has cut loose with his powers and superspeed in fights before. Many times. Superman has operated without character induced stupidity in comics many times. Work with what you have. Not with what you think he should have... just because.

That this argument seems to habitually fall on the deaf ears of Superman fans is perplexing. You never hear Surfer fans arguing that CIS-off Surfer sends his board at FTL speeds to instantly blitz defeat Hulk. You never hear Thor fans arguing that CIS-off Thor sends Mjolnir to instantly blitz defeat Hulk. You definitely don't hear these imaginary fans accusing everyone else of being foolish and ignorant of Surfer/Thor's capabilities.

Step back and reflect on that for a minute here. [/B]

If you were going to concede the debate, all you had to do was say so. Are you obsessed with your own text or something? You've posted the same thing three times and I understood it the first time. Respond to my points or continue on having a conversation with yourself.

Originally posted by h1a8
FTL reflexes involve reaction to things moving at light speed within battle distance. reacting to something further away than battle distance doesn't require FTL reflexes. For example, if you are flying toward the sun at light speed (which is the same as the sun heading towards you at light speed) then you have a total of 8 minutes to react.

In a nutshell, if you can react in less than a 6 nanoseconds to an attack launched 2 meters away from you then you have FTL reflexes.

That's utter nonsense. If that was the case, then little things like asteroids might just get in the way. You one would have to have the ability to perceive and react at that speed.

Originally posted by Uriel005
I didn't say I hated it I just said it was a bit stupid. I've said the same thing about flash as well. There would be no story if they lived up to their potential in a lot of cases.

As for your second part... stop debating period. If you want to argue that then you may as well argue that all fights being debated on herald+ class shouldn't happen if they haven't had in comic fights. No one knows exactly how any character would respond to a character they haven't encountered. Supposing you have Sentry and Supes going at it, what are they going to do love tap eachother for fear of permanently crippling the other. People are giving you the proof that a character could do something and you acknowledge that but turn around and say that they won't. Great now prove that they wouldn't eventually resort to more drastic measures as a fight goes on. Or in your opinion do they carry on like a moron and continue to try the same thing over and over again knowing it won't work.

thumbsup

This guy is like arguing with your dad when you were 6 years old. "Because I said" so doesn't cut it here.

Originally posted by wolverinos
what a dumb post.
superman done things greater than punching 1000 punches a second.
your logic is just ignorant, basically you are saying if a man can stomp an ant, it does not mean he can stomp a different type of bug because you never saw him smash something aside of ant.
superman rebuild a city within a moment, thats speed of movement and throwing punches is much easier to accomplish.
superman speed blitzed his opponents and threw dozens of punches before they could even react in several situations already.
but people like you cant do 1+1, oh no... you need the writers to write everything down for you.
you need the writer to hold your hand and tell you directly, SUPERMAN CAN PUNCH 1000 PUNCHES IN A SECOND.
yeah right... then you say hyperbole or in case it will be a feat you will call it PIS or what ever people are using to dismiss anything they dont like.

Originally posted by h1a8

Why wouldn't Surfer create a Black Hole in someones head or turn their uniform to adamantium or phase his hands through their chest snatching out their heart or phase his board through them or absorb their energy or suck out their soul or turn small and fight them from the inside out. Surfer options are unlimited and if we are granting this done outside of what is shown in a comic to one character then we need to benefit all.

Like I've stated before, people like Surfer, Thor, Sentry, and even Nova Prime would be unbeatable. Their versatility is insane and they have the speed to do this before getting blitzed.

Originally posted by JBL
When you FAIL, go cry to the writers and ask them why he has never done it.

Exactly and thats the point of the thread.

Debating the powers based on writers and your interpretation..........if writers wrote his speed in conjunction with his strength he would be even more boring.

Originally posted by JBL
Here we go again... Show superman punching ANYTHING 1000 times a second. You have one year to show a scan of him doing it. your time starts now. When you FAIL, go cry to the writers and ask them why he has never done it. And my post was dumb?? LMAO!

because these guys are definitely slow-pokes with no reaction feats...

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's utter nonsense. If that was the case, then little things like asteroids might just get in the way. You one would have to have the ability to perceive and react at that speed.

Speed is meaningless without concerning time or distance.
If it takes you 2 seconds to react to something then how fast you or the object is moving is irrelevant as you have 2 second reaction time.

Originally posted by h1a8
Space is huge. Asteroids are minutes away (not seconds or less) traveling at light speed. Plus the density of asteroids is so small that you have less than .00000001 chance of hitting one traveling blind. You are thinking of speeds of millions of times that of light, where asteroid blink past you in microseconds or less.

Speed is meaningless without concerning time or distance.
If it takes you 2 seconds to react to something then how fast you or the object is moving is irrelevant as you have 2 second reaction time.

Dude, charcters flying at light speed or more are not blind missiles launching themselves in a straight line, they are flying, perceiving and thinking. They aren't depicted like Tiger Beetles who are so fast, they run into things because their ability to perceived their environment can't keep up with their speed.

Originally posted by Uriel005

because these guys are definitely slow-pokes with no reaction feats...

Originally posted by Uriel005

because these guys are definitely slow-pokes with no reaction feats...

Who said punching someone 1000 times a second is the only way to blitz? With superman's strength, such a blitz would kill damn near anybody and that's why writers tend to avoid showing such blitzes. This is better anyway.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said punching someone 1000 times a second is the only way to blitz? With superman's strength, such a blitz would kill damn near anybody and that's why writers tend to avoid showing such blitzes. This is better anyway.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said punching someone 1000 times a second is the only way to blitz? With superman's strength, such a blitz would kill damn near anybody and that's why writers tend to avoid showing such blitzes. This is better anyway.

I pray for most top tiers who get punched once. 100? That's instant death! 😱

👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said punching someone 1000 times a second is the only way to blitz? With superman's strength, such a blitz would kill damn near anybody and that's why writers tend to avoid showing such blitzes. This is better anyway.

😕

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said punching someone 1000 times a second is the only way to blitz? With superman's strength, such a blitz would kill damn near anybody and that's why writers tend to avoid showing such blitzes. This is better anyway.