Originally posted by carver9
Before that scene, Ultraman sniffed up some amp juice. Hell, going by this statement, I think he could have snorted some more before pushing the moon in front of the sun.http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/snapshot3_zpsd47198e8.jpg.html
We don't go about saying Galactus amped himself by feeding on a world before his fight with Odin.
Originally posted by Philosophía
You're literally clueless on anything regarding dumbed-down high-school level physics here, dumby.This is going to get really embarrasing for you, if you don't stop.
The fact that it was the Universe pushing the Earth towards Hyperion is irrelevant - it might aswell just have been Superman on the other side. The same way, in my analogy, it could have been tanks, cars, sumo fighters or anything else you can think of pushing the balloons towards the palms of my hand.
Let me get this dumbed down even further.
Imagine, instead of tanks here:
...there's two very massive guys.
They're palming the balloons towards me at the same speed the tanks are.
Now, in your very kindergarden-level knowledge you're currently suffocating in, you might say that I have to deal with a lower level of strain than the ones done by the tank (because OMG TANKS>>>TWO MASSIVE GUYS?! WTF ?!, right, dumby?)
No, dumby. It's the same level of strain. Because I have to deal with the velocity and mass the balloons are coming towards me [which is the same in both cases].
The same way it's the velocity and mass of the Earths that matter in the Hyperion feat, and not what's pushing the Earths themselves.
Should I recommend a step by step manual for you, dumby?
I told you not to get out of your bench if you can't keep up in the other thread.
I don't know if you're purposefully being retarded or this is legitimately what you believe. Either way, it's f*cking stupid as hell.
Your analogy is completely flawed and makes no sense given the context of the feat. Especially since we saw Captain America with the Infinity Gauntlet push an incursion away by blasting an Earth and the planet never broke.
http://s21.postimg.org/kll0v7o6e/New_Avengers_003_Zone_018.jpg
"That earth is like an island breaking the surface of an ocean. He's literally pushing an entire Universe hidden from us..."
If your balloons were super durable and you stopped the tanks dead in their tracks until they exerted enough force to eventually crack them apart, then your analogy would make sense.
Either way, this feat is above and beyond the Ultraman feat by far. The fact that you think it's inferior says all that needs to be said about you.
meh, i get what phil's trying to say, and i think even odg gets where he's coming from as he/you said:
Originally posted by ODG
It wouldn't take two universes to crush two Earths. But it takes more force than moving a god damn moon's orbit.
i agree with odg's statement--he seems to have held apart as much of the universes as the EARTHS could bear. and in phil's defense, he did say it was one of the great strength feats in comics history. as for the moon pushing, after initially moving it, its momentum would play a large role in the continual movement of it so i can't see it being as great a feat as hype's. tbh, it is pretty impossible to say just how much 'universe' it took to crush the planets, but as odg said, it couldn't have required ALL their masses. still, whatever force WAS exerted should have been above what it took to move the moon. were those earth's made of utterly indestructible material and he stood in the middle of them it would have been interesting to see what they would have had happen to him.
the ig feat seems to blatantly contradict hype's feat though. the ig seemed to actually apply enough force to move the earth and the universe backwards without breaking the planet. to me, that says (unlike hyperion) the ig exerted more than just force. which makes sense, given the nearly infinite resources and abilities the ig wielder can bring to bear.
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i get what phil's trying to say, and i think even odg gets where he's coming from as he/you said:i agree with odg's statement--he seems to have held apart as much of the universes as the EARTHS could bear. and in phil's defense, he did say it was one of the great strength feats in comics history. as for the moon pushing, after initially moving it, its momentum would play a large role in the continual movement of it so i can't see it being as great a feat as hype's. tbh, it is pretty impossible to say just how much 'universe' it took to crush the planets, but as odg said, it couldn't have required ALL their masses. still, whatever force WAS exerted should have been above what it took to move the moon. were those earth's made of utterly indestructible material and he stood in the middle of them it would have been interesting to see what they would have had happen to him.
the ig feat seems to blatantly contradict hype's feat though. the ig seemed to actually apply enough force to move the earth and the universe backwards without breaking the planet. to me, that says (unlike hyperion) the ig exerted more than just force. which makes sense, given the nearly infinite resources and abilities the ig wielder can bring to bear.
Pretty much. Didn't think about the momentum myself for the Moon Feat though.
Originally posted by leonidasOn this, the Earth serving as the focal point of the IG's energies doesn't necessarily contradict what Hyperion did at all. Each Incursion lasts a finite amount of time, at which point both Earths are destroyed. And this rule isn't something I made up, it's explicitly told to us in New Avengers, repeatedly. This time limit is why Dr. Strange and Iron Man yelled at Cap w/IG, that it isn't enough to just stop the Earth from advancing, you have to push it away along with its universe and send it back to it's proper place in the Multiverse to end the Incursion's threat:
the ig feat seems to blatantly contradict hype's feat though. the ig seemed to actually apply enough force to move the earth and the universe backwards without breaking the planet. to me, that says (unlike hyperion) the ig exerted more than just force. which makes sense, given the nearly infinite resources and abilities the ig wielder can bring to bear.
Had Cap just kept it suspended in place like Hyperion did, both Earths would have been destroyed eventually even if they weren't touching. Hyperion wasn't strong enough to push the other Earth along with its universe away. That is why Hyperion failed, and the Gems didn't.
i was't questioning whether the earth was pushed, but rather the nature of the forces pushing it. to me, it seems reasonable to think that cap used something more than just something analagous to physical force to push, given the full nature of the ig and the forces it can bring to bear. after all, the ig turns thought into reality. at the least, it seems....not illogical to say cap may have been reinforcing the other earth in some way, or calling upon more forces than were depicted. speculative, clearly, but i don't think i'm reaching too far.
^ It's possible, but given the complete absence of even an intimation that Cap w/IG was stabilizing the alternate Earth so he could bring more power to bear on it as a focal point of his power, unsupported. The absence of proof isn't proof of absence, but Hickman spent an entire issue with people talking around a table explaining the mechanics behind the Incursions. He wasn't exactly left wanting for panel space.
Furthermore, Reed's exposition makes it unlikely. "That earth is like an island breaking the surface of an ocean. He's literally pushing an entire Universe hidden from us..." Reed would have been the perfect person to have noted or advised Cap that he can't just push the Earth away, he has to reinforce it along with his efforts to push it otherwise it'd break under the strain. But all we see is the Earth and Reed, in no uncertain terms says, pushing the Earth is literally pushing its entire universe.
Finally, there are already strange physics at play during the Incursions. The proximity of those Earths being even that close together would have caused gravitic and atmospheric catastrophes. They didn't. Hickman goes out of his way to note that. Certainly, if they did, the IG would presumably be powerful enough to stabilize all those catastrophic forces. But Hickman set up the Incursions such that it was all but unnecessary. The crisis isn't: we have to push the Earth along with its universe away, but y'know, the Earth's mass cannot support a universe, so we have to also compensate for stress fractures along its crust, solid matter compression, gravimetric chaos anomalies, blahblahblah, etc. Indeed, those concerns are largely done away with already by Hickman.
The focus is on the Earth. Its destruction, or mutually assured destruction. The impossible choice. And the theme of New Avengers.
i can't argue your position, but i do believe there was more at work, even if it wasn't explicitly shown. essentially cap's thought would become reality. it just seems odd that he would just shoot some random force beam at the planet without calling (even subconsciously, as the elders did) upon the other abilities of the ig. funny you mentioned about the earth cracking and what not. i was thinking our universe itself would likely have been pushed backwards. easily explained as the ig doing the work, and not cap himself. as i said, i'm not arguing the point, because i have no support (aside from the history of the ig itself.....) but it still seems to better explain that scene, imo.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
ODG, I think what you're forgetting is that balloons and tanks. If I need to say more you just don't understandAlso, I thought Ultraman was supposed to be the same Ultraman from pre boot? He even made a remark that this Superman looked the previous.
There's more than one preboot Ultraman.
Originally posted by ODG
^ Captain America amping the alternate Earth's durability off-panel with the IG serves as a better explanation of what, exactly?What is the logistical conundrum that perplexes you here?
the issue that seemed to be contradictory was the fact that the ig managed to push earth away without breaking the planet, while hype applied less force and the planet shattered. to me, that would indicate steve applied more than just 'physical' force to keep the planet from reaching earth.
^ The Incursion ended. Earths are destroyed when Incursions end, as do their respective universes. The strain of Hyperion's resistance wasn't what destroyed the universes, lol.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftOf course, silly me. Among such venerable theories as "space cheese" and "cheetah speed" who could forget the compelling counter-argument of "balloons n' tanks"?
ODG, I think what you're forgetting is that balloons and tanks. If I need to say more you just don't understandAlso, I thought Ultraman was supposed to be the same Ultraman from pre boot? He even made a remark that this Superman looked the previous.
Why limit it to Hyperion? Thor busted planets as collateral damage? Nope. Dem wuz clearly balloons. And Gorr was a M1 Sherman tank. Worldbreaker Hulk? Pssh, yea right. Dark Dimension's chock full of balloons n' tanks.
