ROTS Count Dooku Vs ROTS Mace Windu

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And who's to say that Dooku didn't blunt this advantage in strength by virtue of sheer skill elsewhere? And who's to say Mace is naturally stronger with Force-assisted strength than either Dooku?

Oh, ok, well if you doubt it.

And again, who's to say that she didn't compensate with skill?

Because his sheer skill isn't that much above Windu's that he could do that. Plus that comic has them crossing blades and Dooku isn't bouncing away. You, apparently.

Because at one point in Revenge her and Savage are in a saber lock and he fails to overpower her.

Also also, Yoda actually beat Sidious in a saberlock. So I guess Yoda should've been capable of blowing Dooku across that hanger, huh?

Says who? In fact, who says one has to be more skilled to circumvent strength? Proof? And no, I didn't?

And? No one disputed the fact that Ventress is physically powerful?

In sheer strength, maybe. But then we're back to the fact that Dooku is probably skilled enough to circumvent those kind of attacks.

And even if not, you'll note I said that I don't think the formula is cut-and-dry, that obviously applies either way.

Yet funnily enough he wasn't skilled enough to not get punked by a noob like Savage.

Savage's status as a neophyte is irrelevant when we're measuring his raw strength? An instance of failure demonstrates an incontrovertible rule?

Maybe you shouldn't be rage!posting? 😬

You know, whether or not Tempest actually thoroughly kicks Nephthys's ass every time he opens his mouth, he's mastered the fine art of Intoxicatingly Smug Rhetoric to the point where it appears that way to the casual observer.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Savage's status as a neophyte is irrelevant when we're measuring his raw strength? An instance of failure demonstrates an incontrovertible rule?

Maybe you shouldn't be rage!posting? 😬

Uh, no it isn't you douche? Since you're arguing that Dooku could have nullified ll these peoples strength through skill, its kind of important that he was unable to do so against an opponent far less skilled than anyone else I've mentioned.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, no it isn't you douche?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since you're arguing that Dooku could have nullified ll these peoples strength through skill, its kind of important that he was unable to do so against an opponent far less skilled than anyone else I've mentioned.

And yet despite having failed to do so, he successfully circumvented Savage's raw strength through superior technique earlier in the same exact episode? Therefore his instance of failure doesn't prove anything other than that Dooku can fail? Which was never in question in the first place?

Um, yes, by dodging him or redirecting the attack. Which he doesn't do against the other people. You can clearly see their blades clashing and Dooku blocking attacks in all those duels. Duuuuuuh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, yes, by dodging him or redirecting the attack. Which he doesn't do against the other people. You can clearly see their blades clashing and Dooku blocking attacks in all those duels. Duuuuuuh.

And yet Dooku successfully blocks strikes from Anakin throughout their duels? And Barriss with Anakin? We're back to the fact that all I was telling KT is that the formula is "not cut and dry"? I never claimed Yoda was stronger than Mace or anyone, for that matter, just that he is strong? When the cloud of rage dissipates, you will see the truth for what it is?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And yet Dooku successfully blocks strikes from Anakin throughout their duels? And Barriss with Anakin? We're back to the fact that all I was telling KT is that the formula is "not cut and dry"?

No shit. Hence why I pointed out that duelists might not go all-out for strength all the time since obviously it isn't that cut and dry.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No shit. Hence why I pointed out that duelists might not go all-out for strength all the time since obviously it isn't that cut and dry.

Except that it would stand to reason that duelists would indeed go "all out" in the midst of a truly life-or-death scenario.

For example, Sidious is more likely to bring all his strength to bear against Yoda, an opponent that actually legitimately threatens him, than against Savage and Maul, whom he demonstrably and consistently toys with.

Now if you're determined to find a cogent in-universe explanation for such inconsistency, perhaps we could say that sometimes it is more difficult in the heat of battle to focus on augmenting physical strength while also enhancing agility, speed, and precognition? Or perhaps the Force comes to the aid of one quicker than the other?

But the idea that a Force user would deliberately restrain himself when threatened (unless otherwise noted) seems silly.

I always took it that Dooku was caught off-guard by Savage's sheer strength, and would have done better had he been more prepared. And even though Dooku still felt threatened by Savage's strength even after realizing just how strong Savage really was (seeing how he insisted on keeping Savage at a distance via lightning attacks), this doesn't necessarily mean he is considerably weaker than Mace. Mace's physicality (speed) was amped to Sidious' level during their duel, so I'm pretty sure the amp would have added to his strength as well. It definitely makes sense.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Now if you're determined to find a cogent in-universe explanation for such inconsistency, perhaps we could say that sometimes it is more difficult in the heat of battle to focus on augmenting physical strength while also enhancing agility, speed, and precognition? Or perhaps the Force comes to the aid of one quicker than the other?

But the idea that a Force user would deliberately restrain himself when threatened (unless otherwise noted) seems silly.

Yes, that is exactly my thinking. They'd put they're strength into other aspects since they don't require the strength as much.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

3. BEFORE he went into the zone.. Anakin's strikes were damaging Dooku's force reserves just fending them off. This was before Kenobi was even taken out. You need to read the novel again. This was explained because of the Kinectic Energy (you even referenced this) used by powerful two handed strikes from strong people can tax somebody only using one arm to defend against them. This was even stated in the essential guide for Dooku's form. Stop acting like you have no idea about this when it was even stated in the novel you claim to have read.

It's Stover's BS man. Go and watch movie, read this book, watch movie again and... it will be clear, that this book's version of this fight is opposite to ROTS movie version. So its opposite to the highest form of canon. So it's BS.
I would prefer to use "Rise and Fall of Darth Vader". This source is describing that fight much better. Look:

"You won't get away this time, Dooku," Obi-Wan said. He and Obi-Wan
ignited their blue-bladed light-sabers and advanced on Dooku, who ignited his own red-bladed weapon. The beams of their lightsabers hummed and clashed as they moved across the chamber. Dooku defended himself effortlessly.
On the level above, the two droids didn't budge, but watched silently as the figures came to a momentary standstill. While the three lightsabers continued to blaze, Dooku grinned at his opponents and said, "I've been looking forward to this."
Not intimidated by the elder swordsman, Anakin said, "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count."
"Good," Dooku said. "Twice the pride, double the fall."
The Jedi charged once again. Dooku backed up as he parried their blows, then used the Force to throw Obi-Wan to the floor. As Anakin continued his assault on Dooku, forcing him back up the steps to the upper level, Obi- Wan recovered himself and leapt up to rejoin the fight.
The two droids fired at Obi-Wan, but he batted their fired energy bolts back at them and cut them down as he moved fast for Dooku. Unfortunately, Dooku moved faster, extending his left hand toward Obi-Wan as he used the Force to lift the Jedi off his feet while at the same time constricting his throat. As Obi-Wan gasped, Anakin swung at Dooku from behind, but Dooku kicked Anakin's stomach with his left foot, smashing the young Jedi against a nearby wall.
Obi-Wan was still suspended in the air when Dooku gestured again with his hand to send his choking victim sailing across the chamber. Obi-Wan crashed against the railing of an extended balcony, then collapsed like a broken doll to the floor. With another gesture, Dooku used the Force to tear a section of the balcony away from its braces and pin Obi-Wan's unconscious form to the floor.
Master!
Anakin threw himself at Dooku, knocking him from the balcony to the floor below.
Leaping down after his quarry, Anakin struck again and again at Dooku until both of their blades were practically locked onto each other.
"I sense great fear in you, Skywalker," Dooku said. "You have hate. You have anger.But you don't use them."
Anakin grimaced, angrier than before, the blades unlocked, and the duel resumed.
Trading blows across the chamber, they came to a stop near the hostage Palpatine.
Dooku was using both hands to grip his lightsaber, putting more of his
strength into each deadly swing, when Anakin reached out fast with his left hand to catch Dooku's wrists. In the moment that Dooku was temporarily pinned, Anakin's right hand twisted sharply to swing his lightsaber between him and the startled Dooku.
Dooku's lightsaber automatically deactivated as it flew out of his severed hands, which fell to the floor with an ugly flopping sound. His knees buckled, and he dropped to kneel beside his hands.

^that doesn't necessarily contradict Stover, since Anakin and Obi Wan were initially holding back.

BTW, Stover's novel is higher canon.

^
No, it isn't since Anakin and Obi-wan weren't holding back. It was acctualy in script, but was finally cut off.

DOOKU lunges at the JEDI and they fall back . . .

COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) Your moves are clumsy, Kenobi . . . too predictable. You'll have to do better.

As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.

So, movie's version is the highest. Novelisation contradict with that, so this part is noncanon.

Lolwut? How can Obi-Wan be tired, he doesn't ****ing do anything in that fight. How can he be tired after 10 seconds of dueling and then fight Anakin for 30 shitting minutes?

lol

Yeah script is higher canon than Stover's novel.

Movies are higher canon than either and they contradict the script imo.