Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The way I see it, is Kun is not necessarily more powerful than Dooku, he just excels in an area that Dooku showed no affinity for (sorcery), so it may be a who hits who first.
That might be the case, but in a force battle, Kun's array of demonstrated attacks simply outweighs that of Dooku. He has his Sith sorcery (including several powerful offensive moves) and - not to forget - his amulet (power up in terms of force energy, energy blasts).
That aside, we have seen Kun walking through a Sith sorcery attack from Aleema Keto, who had used the very same attack before, to instantly burn the skin from one of her minions. In a similar demonstration of resistance to force attacks, Odan-Urr utilizing the most powerful lightside attack (force sever - with experience of using it against Ancient Sith) on Kun, archived nothing but putting Kun on his ass for a split second, before the latter gets up and force chokes the 1,000 year old Jedi Master to death. An act, after which Kun comments - to himself more or less - that he could now just imprison the soul of the Jedi Master. Obviously, Kun's expertise in dark side lore exceeds Dooku's by far, which was probably the reason for the narrator of "The Sith War" commenting that Kun had amassed "more knowledge than he could ever use." And even his damn spirit was capable of leaving Gantoris as a charred husked, burned down from the inside - and seperating Luke Skywalker's spirit from his body (Jedi Academy Trilogy).
So in a clash of Force powers, I don't see much hope for Dooku.
Dooku is a very potent telekinetic, and he has easily overpowered other extremely gifted telekinetic users with this power. I mean, we can assume that Kun is better with TK than people like Ventress or Kenobi, although he has no feats with this power to suggest it that I'm aware of.
Erm.
He helped Kyp Durron to lift the Sun Crusher out of the depths of a gas giant. And, I may add, he did most of that job for the young Jedi. Lifting a space ship out of a high pressure enviroment into space appears to be a rather nice display of TK abilties. And this was Kun's "powerless" spirit. Imagine Kun alive and add the influence of his amulet, and I don't see how Dooku would come even close to that.
Likewise, we can assume Dooku is knowledgeable enough to fight off many of Kun's sorcerous attacks because Dooku has studied holocrons created by powerful sith sorcerers (Andeddu, for example), but I doubt anyone would accept this due to the lack of feats on Dooku's part. So I don't see why we should assume that Kun can shrug off a direct TK attack from a TK user of Dooku's caliber unless he has comparable TK feats or fought off TK attacks from opponents who are comparable to Dooku in this area (does he/has he?). Now, Kun has bigger arsenal of techniques than Dooku on account of being a sorcerer; but the question is, can he use any of these attacks before Dooku can use his TK?
See above. For Dooku's speculated defense against Sith Sorcery: In "The Essential Guide through the Force" Sidious specifically mentioned, that he wouldn't share the knowledge he had from Sadow (which empowered both Nadd an Kun) with anybody else - because he thought it was too dangerous.
That aside, Luke Skywalker, when being attacked by Kun's spirit / Kyp Durron with one of Kun's sorcery abilities, noted that no defense Yoda (!) had taught him would work against such abilities. So I doubt Dooku would figure one out in time, to stop Kun's vast array of offensive powers, his amulet beams and whatever Kun would throw at him. Especially not when, in terms of counter-offensive, he's limited to Force Lightning and offensive TK.
And, with all due respect for Andeddu, but Sadow has be proclaimed to have been one of the most powerful Sith Sorceres to ever show up in the saga. That being noted by Sidious, who just had access to knowledge gathered by Sadow from a time centuries before his death. You may just think about the fact, that both Nadd and Kun thought they would be able to simple create new bodies for themselves using Sadow's knowledge.
Admittedly, I don't come close to knowing all of Kun's feats, but I am aware of plenty of the impressive ones, and most of the ones I'm aware of is sorcery.
See above. Kun is an absolute beast in direct confrontation. There is a reason why the "Official Star Wars Fact File" labeled him "the most powerful and dangerous of the Sith Lords."
@Tempest
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Moose is my current objective. We've never been able to persuade each other of our views, but he's much less hostile than Nai.
WTF? Considering the fact, that I'm German and haven't invaded your hometown to execute your family and friends or ship you off to some concentration camp, one must conclude, that I'm extremely nice to you. That aside, Goethe wrote (Faust, Part II): "Im Deutschen lügt man, wenn man höflich ist." ("In German one lies, when one is polite."😉 So you shouldn't be expecting much in that regard. 😉
Nai is actually being civil with me? That's surprising.
Anywho, in one of the Legacy books, Kyp seemed to imply that he moved the sun crusher with his own power (don't remember what he said word for word, but it had something to do with raw power vs mastery), so how do we know who played a bigger role in moving the ship? Furthermore, aren't there other sources that contradict how the ship was moved, like one source saying they manipulated the controls of the ship or something, and then Kyp saying he did so in a display of sheer raw power, which seemingly suggested he actually moved the ship with the force.
Originally posted by SJones91109
Was that the exact quote? Also, which sith lords? I'd expect it to be more conclusive if an "all" was added to that statement.
"The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas" (The Official Star Wars Fact File)
Conclusive enough for you?
SIDIOUS_66
Nai is actually being civil with me? That's surprising.
The German is merely lulling you into a false state of security; the moment your guard is down, he'll strike like the cunning serpent he is.
Trust no one.
Nai
Erm.
He helped Kyp Durron to lift the Sun Crusher out of the depths of a gas giant. And, I may add, he did most of that job for the young Jedi. Lifting a space ship out of a high pressure enviroment into space appears to be a rather nice display of TK abilties.
Not exactly.
As the sphere of Yavin rose into the sky, Kyp lifted his arms, and the slick black fabric of his cape fell behind him. His hands were slender and small, the hands of a young man. But inside, power sizzled through his bones.
"Exar Kun, help me," Kyp said, closing his eyes.
He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant.
Behind him Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into hm and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt. Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.
Pale orange clouds whipped past him. He sensed pressure increasing as he plummeted down, down to the incredibly dense layers near the core. He sought the tiny speck of machinery, a small, indestructible ship that had been cast away.
When he reached the bottommost levels of the atmosphere, Kyp finally found the Sun Crusher. It stood out like a beacon, a bull's-eye in the funneling field lines of the Force.
Size matters not, Master Skywalker had repeated. Kyp engulfed the Sun Crusher with his mind, surrounding it, touching it with his limitless, invisible hands.
He thought about heaving it back up, dragging the Sun Crusher out of the depths of Yavin. But he discarded that thought.
Instead, with the assistance of Exar Kun, he used his innate skill to power up the controls again, to move control levers, push buttons to alter the course stored in the Sun Crusher's memory, bringing it out of its entombment.
Kyp continued to watch the weapon's progress, focusing on the sphere of the enormous planet as it crested the misty treetops. The Sun Crusher appeared as a silvery dot, seeming no larger than an atom as it emerged from the highest cloud layers and streaked across space toward the emerald-green moon where Kyp waited.
He stared upward and waited, opening his arms to receive the indestructible weapon.
The Sun Crusher approached like a long, sharp thorn of crystalline alloy, cruising upright on its long axis. The toroidal resonance-torpedo launcher hung at the bottom of the long hook. It looked beautiful.
The Sun Crusher descended through the jungle moon's atmosphere, straight down--like a spike to impale the Great Temple. Kyp controlled it, slowed its descent, until the superweapon hovered to a stop, suspended in front of him.
As the sky brightened with planetrise, the alloy hull of the Sun Crusher seemed as pristine as a firefacet gem, scoured of all oxidation and debris by the intense temperatures and pressures at the core of Yavin. The Sun Crusher looked clean, and deadly, and ready for him.
"Thank you, Exar Kun," Kyp whispered.
—Dark Apprentice
Kun's specter did indeed "reinforce" Kyp's latent powers, but Kyp was drawing on the Massassi temples for energy as well. Neither of them resurrected the Sun Crusher by brute telekinesis, but by manipulating the weapon's own controls.
Nai
"The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas" (The Official Star Wars Fact File)Conclusive enough for you?
This appears to have been retconned by the more recent Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia:
Kun was indeed once the most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords.
Nai
WTF? Considering the fact, that I'm German and haven't invaded your hometown to execute your family and friends or ship you off to some concentration camp, one must conclude, that I'm extremely nice to you. That aside, Goethe wrote (Faust, Part II): "Im Deutschen lügt man, wenn man höflich ist." ("In German one lies, when one is polite."😉 So you shouldn't be expecting much in that regard.
