Exar Kun vs Dooku

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Anyway, Kun is a badass, but it's hard to compare him to many other sith lords because most of his greatest force feats come from sorcery.

Kun's amulet is a pretty potent weapon, though I don't think it's going to charbroil Dooku. But like anything else, if he's tagged with it enough times, he's going to go down.

I'm inclined to give the Count an advantage as a swordsman and telekinetic. But between Kun's raw potency, amulets, and greater Sith knowledge, I could be persuaded that he'd take a majority. It's gonna be tough, though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
For instance, who would win a battle between Starkiller and Kun?

Starkiller decimates him in feats. I'd probably give it to Marek after a tough fight.

What about Kun's soul ripping technique, has he ever used that in battle? Is it something he's only accomplished on a dark side nexus?

The one he used on Luke?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Neph, what are you talking about?

Tulak Hord (you remember, the guy Kreia said made Kotor-era peps look like children) has some nasty feats in TOR. According to his bodyguard and servant Khem Val he once pulled a capital ship the size of the Endar Spire (300 metes) out of the sky and one time on Yn singlehandedly broke a Jedi siege. Additional information on that battle has the Jedi being at least a thousand strong in that battle. Whats more is that he drained the energy from them after, increasing his power and vitality.

So he's pretty good.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah.

Were these feats mentioned in an encyclopedia or sourcebook or something?

Yn and Chabosh are and thats where I'm getting the numbers for how many Jedi Hord killed.

Do you have the excerpts from the passages, Nephhles?

@Temp, yes that one.

@Neph, No1 cares about Tulak Hord except you. Sidious speedblitzes him.

Lolno.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Do you have the excerpts from the passages, Nephhles?

Yes.

PM them to me.

Lolyes.

It might take Mcdiarmid a minute or two, but he'll blitz him.

No he wouldn't. This is a guy who killed a thousand Jedi in a single battle and drained their energy, who was an unparalleled lightsaber master in his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived.

Ignore the Sidious fanboy. He's only here for our amusement.

SJones, you remind me of a woman. lol

You're here because I turn you on, as you already admitted in another thread.

This is basically what Exar has to his name: (Note that Exar Kun vastly improved between "pre time skip" and "post time skip."😉

Lightsaber Combat:

-Kun was called the most formidable duelist ever trained by a lightsaber instructor of 400 years pre time skip.
-Kun was called "unparalleled" in lightsaber combat pre time skip.
-Kun stalemated Ulic Quel Droma in lightsaber combat pre time skip. Ulic by this point has quite a few feats and accolades to his name, and considering how vastly Kun improved as a duelist between timeskips this is very impressive.
-Kun defeated Vodo Siosk Baas with relative ease post time skip.
-Kun in his final battle with Vodo moved fast enough to produce a trail of afterimages behind his blade.
-Kun was physically strong enough to break through Vodo's staff, which hadn't ever been done by anyone else in Vodo's 400 years.
-Kun was physically strong enough to cleave people in two, as well as crush a holocron with his bare hands.
-Kun easily outmatched Ood Bnar in a lightsaber duel post time skip.
-Kun was capable of changing the length and intensity settings on his lightsaber mid-combat to disorient his opponents and fight in an even more unorthodox manner.
-Kun, post time skip, used an extremely unorthodox saberstaff. While Dooku is aware of the weapon unlike others during Kun's timeline, Exar Kun's weapon was very different in mechanic than traditional saberstaffs and thus Dooku would likely also have difficulty combating it.

Force Powers:

-Kun has pretty powerful TK, as displayed when he rag-dolled notable Jedi Knight Sylvar, killed the Ancient Jedi Master Odan Urr, and held 12 Jedi in a chokehold albeit while on a DS Nexus.
-Kun has extremely powerful Force Blasts, and has shown ability to incinerate Sithspawn, tear gaping holes in Leviathans, and blow holes in stone dams, and he also incapacitated Aleema Keto with a less concentrated blast.
-Kun had a high aptitude for Sith Magic/Sith Sorcery, and the magnitude of his prowess was shown when he utilized a spell that froze the minds of the entire Galactic Senate, which consisted of several hundred members. Considering that he learned everything he knew from Naga Sadow's scrolls and Freedon Nadd's tutelage, it's highly probable that he was also a master of Force Illusions. He also used a ritual to drain the life force of the entire Massassi Species.
-Kun also demonstrated a high level of Telepathic ability, as shown when he destroyed the mind of the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic--Who could be assumed to be a strong-willed individual.
-Kun showed us that he knew the technique of "Dark Side Tendrils" when he taught Kyp/helped Kyp perform the technique on Yavin IV during the latter's time as his accomplice. This technique has been shown to be extremely dangerous, the tendrils disintegrating all in their path and it's uninterceptable.
-Both Kun's and Droma's Force Screams held enough power to blow away all surroundings and their power can be felt throughout the Galaxy, apparently.
-Kun also used Sith Alchemy on numerous occasions, creating abominations and machines of war such as the Dark Reaper. While not usually applicable in combat, at one point Kun used Sith Alchemy to create a jewel which he stored the life force of many Massassi in that he kept on his person as an additional source of energy. We never saw him needing to use this, but I'm sure it's useful for increasing his already large power reserves.
-Pretty sure he can use Force Lightning, too. Though I'm not sure to what degree he can utilize it.

I don't think I'm forgetting anything, though if I am let me know. That's basically what Exar Kun's got for himself. Personally--I'd say Exar Kun edges this. Dooku's really powerful, but Exar Kun is pretty beastly himself. I do say it's a pretty damn close battle myself, though.

Exar Kun vs Reborn Krayt would be an extremely interesting fight imho. Kun might edge that one out too, not sure though.

NewGuy, how much of a challenge do you think Kun would pose to ROTS Sidious?

Exar Kun...wins all three...Dooku is no match for Exar Kun .
not even close...not even in the same league.

Dooku would loose...badly...

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Nai is actually being civil with me? That's surprising.

Anywho, in one of the Legacy books, Kyp seemed to imply that he moved the sun crusher with his own power (don't remember what he said word for word, but it had something to do with raw power vs mastery), so how do we know who played a bigger role in moving the ship? Furthermore, aren't there other sources that contradict how the ship was moved, like one source saying they manipulated the controls of the ship or something, and then Kyp saying he did so in a display of sheer raw power, which seemingly suggested he actually moved the ship with the force.

After having read the Tempest posting, I have to admit, that I was remembering that wrong. Haven't read the Jedi Academy Trilogy since it was released.

@Tempest

Kun's specter did indeed "reinforce" Kyp's latent powers, but Kyp was drawing on the Massassi temples for energy as well. Neither of them resurrected the Sun Crusher by brute telekinesis, but by manipulating the weapon's own controls.

Well. And where was the power of that Massassi Temples coming from? 😉 You're right about the brute telekinesis, though. As I said before: Didn't read the books since they were released.

This appears to have been retconned by the more recent Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia [...]
Kun was indeed once the most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords.

How is that a retcon, Gideon? The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't contradict the Official Star Wars Fact File, it merely uses a different - more ambigious - wording. Not surprisingly, going by LFL standards. Yet, a retcon would only happen, if the CSWE would present a different candidate for that title, taking information into consideration that was released past production date of the Fact File. Does something like that happen?

That aside: Examining the sources, it would be rather hard to find a Sith Lord capable of matching Kun's expertise in Sith Alchemy / sorcery, equipping him with a nice amount of Dark Side powers useable in compat. Add the amulet increasing his power and his lightsaber expertise (unique weapon, unique style of fighting) and the list of people (especially other Sith Lords) speculatively capable of taking him out in single combat is most likely very short. And I don't think, that Dooku is on that list, even if I would grand him a very small chance of taking Kun out in a pure lightsaber match.

On the issue of Tulak Hord

"In his time as Dark Lord of the Sith, Tulak Hord was known as a master of the mystical dark arts of the Force, using his powers to plumb the depths of life and death. In the battles of Yn and Chabosh, Tulak Hord is believed to have used a ritual to draw the strength of his enemies to himself, growing his power and vitality." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, The Ritual of Tulak Hord (Sith Inquisitor).

Which is, kind of, confirmed by the following:
Three hundred years after Tulak Hord, the Sith Ergast tried to recreate the ritual the Dark Lord used to devour the spirits of his enemies at Yn and Chabosh. In its place, he discovered what he called the ritual of Force-walking. Requiring a Sith of great strength of will, the ritual of Force-walking allows the user to bind the restless ghosts of dead Sith to himself. Once the ghosts are bound, the ritualist may draw from their power, channeling it into a powerful exertion of Force energy against his enemies." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Force-Walking (Sith Inquisitor)

"Lord of Hate, Master of the Gathering Darkness and Dark Lord of the Sith. These are but a few of the titles worn by the great Tulak Hord. His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks. Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful. [...] Imperial historians believe the worlds conquered by Hord number in the hundreds, but any records from his bygone era were lost in the Great Hyperspace War." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Tomb of Tulak Hord.

"Incidents of Sith Lords imbuing their most precious possessions with some fragment of their dark power appear throughout Sith history. Such ritual imbuement can be used to inflict all manner of trouble on those who would steal these terrible treasures. The Dark Lord of the Sith Tulak Hord was especially known for this practice, and many possessions of Tulak Hord’s have driven their discoverers to madness throughout the years. Tulak’s Madness is unique in who it affects, however; ignoring whether a person’s spirit is dark or light, it afflicts only the weak-willed, driving them to delusions of grandeur and eventual self-destruction." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Tulak Hord's Madness.

And of course, there is Hord's friendly servant Khem Val, whose character description looks like that:
"Powerful, cunning and ruthless enough to slay even the strongest Force users, Khem Val was trained as an elite assassin. After emerging from his long slumber, the Dashade is the very embodiment of death and destruction; a reminder that there are things even Sith and Jedi must fear."- SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Khem Val (Sith Inquisitor)

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

It might take Mcdiarmid a minute or two, but he'll blitz him.

1-2minutes is hardly a blitz.

Originally posted by Nai
On the issue of Tulak Hord

"In his time as Dark Lord of the Sith, Tulak Hord was known as a master of the mystical dark arts of the Force, using his powers to plumb the depths of life and death. In the battles of Yn and Chabosh, Tulak Hord is believed to have used a ritual to draw the strength of his enemies to himself, growing his power and vitality." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, The Ritual of Tulak Hord (Sith Inquisitor).

Which is, kind of, confirmed by the following:
Three hundred years after Tulak Hord, the Sith Ergast tried to recreate the ritual the Dark Lord used to devour the spirits of his enemies at Yn and Chabosh. In its place, he discovered what he called the ritual of Force-walking. Requiring a Sith of great strength of will, the ritual of Force-walking allows the user to bind the restless ghosts of dead Sith to himself. Once the ghosts are bound, the ritualist may draw from their power, channeling it into a powerful exertion of Force energy against his enemies." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Force-Walking (Sith Inquisitor)

"Lord of Hate, Master of the Gathering Darkness and Dark Lord of the Sith. These are but a few of the titles worn by the great Tulak Hord. His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks. Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful. [...] Imperial historians believe the worlds conquered by Hord number in the hundreds, but any records from his bygone era were lost in the Great Hyperspace War." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Tomb of Tulak Hord.

"Incidents of Sith Lords imbuing their most precious possessions with some fragment of their dark power appear throughout Sith history. Such ritual imbuement can be used to inflict all manner of trouble on those who would steal these terrible treasures. The Dark Lord of the Sith Tulak Hord was especially known for this practice, and many possessions of Tulak Hord’s have driven their discoverers to madness throughout the years. Tulak’s Madness is unique in who it affects, however; ignoring whether a person’s spirit is dark or light, it afflicts only the weak-willed, driving them to delusions of grandeur and eventual self-destruction." - SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Tulak Hord's Madness.

And of course, there is Hord's friendly servant Khem Val, whose character description looks like that:
"Powerful, cunning and ruthless enough to slay even the strongest Force users, Khem Val was trained as an elite assassin. After emerging from his long slumber, the Dashade is the very embodiment of death and destruction; a reminder that there are things even Sith and Jedi must fear."- SW:ToR, Codex Entry, Khem Val (Sith Inquisitor)

Yes, and the others are simply:

"This was the tomb of Tulak Hord, the greatest lightsaber duelist of the Sith Lords. His skill was considered remarkable even for his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived. If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters." - Kreia, KotOR.

"The great Tulak Hord once pulled a ship this size from the sky." - Khem Val, SW:TOR, upon seeing the ruins of the Endar Spire (300 meters).

"I have not felt this full since the battles of Yn and Chabosh, when Veshik Urk and I followed our masters into war and feasted upon armies of Jedi. It was in the days before Tulak Hord was the Dark Lord of the Sith. On Yn, the Jedi had laid siege to an imperial stronghold. Tulak Hord broke the siege singlehandedly. And then he pressed forward to Jedi-held Chabosh, leaving nothing but Jedi blood in his wake. I never lacked Force energy to feed on in those days." - Khem Val, SW:TOR.

"Under Tulak Hords command, Khem Val devoured the life energy from thousands of Jedi in ancient battles waged on the planets of Yn and Chabosh. One of Khem Val's proudest victories came during the Battle of Chabosh, where he fought by Tulak Hords side to conquer an army of Jedi 1,000 strong." - SWTORE.

"Tulak Hord-a mighty Sith Lord with legendary lightsaber skills." - SWTORE.

Originally posted by Nai
And where was the power of that Massassi Temples coming from? 😉

Yavin?

Originally posted by Nai
How is that a retcon, Gideon? The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't contradict the Official Star Wars Fact File

Use of the adverb "once" indicates that he was formerly the strongest Sith, suggesting he has been surpassed in the intervening years.

Tulak Hord appears to be more powerful than Exar kun on the basis of latest information. Heck, the former have better feats than even Yoda.

The practice of assigning "most powerful" accolade to characters have resulted in inconsistencies unfortunately.