Mandarin(w/o Rings) Vs Batman(w/o Gadgets)

i'm not doubting mandy's skill. i'm saying that there is support that bats could certainly fight him and do well. be good to see mandarin go against another uber martial guy. damaging tony's all well and good, but tony is not the most skilled fighter so judging his skill level is not as easy as saying--he hurt tony so he must be the uberest fighter ever. i highly doubt for example if he fought cap or logan or iron fist h2h that mandarin would beat them down. in fact, i thought he DID fight one of them somewhere but i can't recall who or where.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not doubting mandy's skill. i'm saying that there is support that bats could certainly fight him and do well. be good to see mandarin go against another uber martial guy. damaging tony's all well and good, but tony is not the most skilled fighter so judging his skill level is not as easy as saying--he hurt tony so he must be the uberest fighter ever. i highly doubt for example if he fought cap or logan or iron fist h2h that mandarin would beat them down. in fact, i thought he DID fight one of them somewhere but i can't recall who or where.

👆 He is good no one doubts it but guys like CA, Logan, Batman are above him in the MA department.

His powers and feats come mostly from his Rings.

The grant him even something like "Superspeed"
They can enchance their wearer and iirc he even got some "Dragonhands" for some time. It's undisputable that his Body and his skills and so all his feats are amped by the rings.

Here a quote from his marvel bio "Although the Mandarin has no natural superhuman powers of his own, he is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various Oriental martial arts. Through repeated practice he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick callus. Without artificial aids he can split wood, cinderblock, or even mild steel with a blow of his hand. When he surrounds himself with a thin but intense protective force field, he can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reenforced alloy armor with repeated blows of his hand."

Just don't believe what some people say. ^^

😆

hmm, it wasn't logan i was recalling, it was psylocke and in h2h she did quite well against him the first time--he was pretending to be slaymaster--and the second time he overpowered her but she got in a good shot before he flipped her. i don't think his martial skills are light years beyond the highest street guys, though his chi and striking power are obviously very high. anyway, no i def don't see this as a stomp.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, it wasn't logan i was recalling, it was psylocke and in h2h she did quite well against him the first time--he was pretending to be slaymaster--and the second time he overpowered her but she got in a good shot before he flipped her. i don't think his martial skills are light years beyond the highest street guys, though his chi and striking power are obviously very high. anyway, no i def don't see this as a stomp.

👆

Jim Lees run of the X-Man?

Psylocke is weaksauce.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not doubting mandy's skill. i'm saying that there is support that bats could certainly fight him and do well. be good to see mandarin go against another uber martial guy. damaging tony's all well and good, but tony is not the most skilled fighter so judging his skill level is not as easy as saying--he hurt tony so he must be the uberest fighter ever.

Originally posted by leonidas
i highly doubt for example if he fought cap or logan or iron fist h2h that mandarin would beat them down. in fact, i thought he DID fight one of them somewhere but i can't recall who or where.

Wolverine's never fought Mandarin in H2H. He did sneak up behind him once while Psylocke engaged him in telepathic struggle. Which was only after Mandarin made short work of Psylocke once he grew angry at her impertinence to engage him in a fight. In a comic that quite literally states his "martial prowess is second to none":

Mandarin isn't some featless sh1t with one-off appearances. This has been his entire career. And to punctuate the point, even jinzin and srankmissingnin know he outclasses Wolverine. What exactly is there to argue at this point beyond deconstructing butthurt trolls?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
👆 He is good no one doubts it but guys like CA, Logan, Batman are above him in the MA department.

His powers and feats come mostly from his Rings.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/68727/1285169-mikefichera__mandarinringsuni.jpg

The grant him even something like "Superspeed"
They can enchance their wearer and iirc he even got some "Dragonhands" for some time. It's undisputable that his Body and his skills and so all his feats are amped by the rings.

Here a quote from his marvel bio "Although the Mandarin has no natural superhuman powers of his own, he is a superb athlete with tremendous skill in the various Oriental martial arts. Through repeated practice he has toughened all the striking surfaces of his body, especially his hands, which are covered with thick callus. Without artificial aids he can split wood, cinderblock, or even mild steel with a blow of his hand. When he surrounds himself with a thin but intense protective force field, he can even split Iron Man's magnetic-beam reenforced alloy armor with repeated blows of his hand."

Just don't believe what some people say. ^^

No wait, another thing; the only time Mandarin has ever speedblitzed anyone is when he was both ringless and handless and held in prison for years without food, water or sleep as posted before:

Originally posted by ODG

^I proved you wrong, live with it and go on boy, just stop lying and misleading people with selected scans. Thanks for playing ^^.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^I proved you wrong, live with it and go on boy, just stop lying and misleading people with selected scans. Thanks for playing ^^.

By all means, I suppose being a complete bald-faced liar is the only way you'll stay relevant. Then again:

^nice gif, you are really hurt and upset. Sorry, not my intention to educate teenagers on forums 🙂.

Mandarin wins. Surprised this went on for 4 pages honestly.

^ The ignorance would almost be offensive if it wasn't so hilarious. Then again, Mandarin isn't really that well known. The behavior though, in the face of clear scans of on-panel feats, dozens of them, is just pure comedy gold.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^nice gif, you are really hurt and upset. Sorry, not my intention to educate teenagers on forums 🙂.

So I take that the prison scene doesn't have Mandarin with rings graften into his spine?

Originally posted by ODG
Batman can't fight Iron Man and tear apart his suit with his bare hands. Let's not delude ourselves. Tony Stark's martial arts abilities have absolutely nothing to do with Mandarin's H2H skill. Captain America, even before Iron Man used his own recordings of his career against him in Civil War, was never able to beat down Iron Man in his armor with his fists the way Mandarin has. There's a reason Mandarin is able to do this with his bare hands. Because he is just that skilled. ............... a scan was already posted showing Mandarin overwhelming Captain America with his superhuman karate on the very first page of this thread.

Wolverine's never fought Mandarin in H2H. He did sneak up behind him once while Psylocke engaged him in telepathic struggle. Which was only after Mandarin made short work of Psylocke once he grew angry at her impertinence to engage him in a fight. In a comic that quite literally states his "martial prowess is second to none":

Mandarin isn't some featless sh1t with one-off appearances. This has been his entire career. And to punctuate the point, even jinzin and srankmissingnin know he outclasses Wolverine. What exactly is there to argue at this point beyond deconstructing butthurt trolls?

i'll assume the whole butthurt thing was directed at someone else. anyway, you're right, bats wouldn't take apart the armor like mandarin did, but there's no guarantee he'd be able to hit someone like bats or logan or dd, or the other uber martial guys like he could tee off against tony. the fight would be completely different. in that first scan you posted, cap also said that he wasn't even sure if his SHIELD could take another hit...... i'm willing to wager that a rematch between them wouldn't go the same way. mandarin has some level of superhuman stats so i'd take him to win this fight eventually, but i don't think it would be easy. i'm not going to get into comparing who bats has fought and beaten that can also strike with superhuman force, cap has even better showings against people who hit as hard.

my point is, his straight h2h SKILL isn't so overwhelming that others can't match or beat him in straight h2h imo. his skill plus superhuman stats makes him more formidable than most martial guys, not his skill alone. take away his chi amping and go just skills, and i wouldn't place him definitively above the others i've mentioned at all. here's his first fight against psylocke:

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mandy wins, but i don't think it's because he's more skilled. his skilled coupled with his personal power is too much. i'd say it's a pretty dead-heat between rand and mandarin and in terms of pure skill and we have a good idea where danny ranks.

Originally posted by Bentley
So I take that the prison scene doesn't have Mandarin with rings graften into his spine?

And you see the rings being presented in the second scan, then put away in the third scan into the same box just before Mandarin basically speedblitzes them (handless and bound by chains).

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll assume the whole butthurt thing was directed at someone else. anyway, you're right, bats wouldn't take apart the armor like mandarin did, but there's no guarantee he'd be able to hit someone like bats or logan or dd, or the other uber martial guys like he could tee off against tony. the fight would be completely different. in that first scan you posted, cap also said that he wasn't even sure if his SHIELD could take another hit...... i'm willing to wager that a rematch between them wouldn't go the same way. mandarin has some level of superhuman stats so i'd take him to win this fight eventually, but i don't think it would be easy. i'm not going to get into comparing who bats has fought and beaten that can also strike with superhuman force, cap has even better showings against people who hit as hard.

Originally posted by leonidas
my point is, his straight h2h SKILL isn't so overwhelming that others can't match or beat him in straight h2h imo. his skill plus superhuman stats makes him more formidable than most martial guys, not his skill alone. take away his chi amping and go just skills, and i wouldn't place him definitively above the others i've mentioned at all. here's his first fight against psylocke:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/s72t.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/k0uy.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/bsif.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/30/iq8y.jpg

So basically, you need to focus on their "second" fight -- which is their only actual fight -- where Mandarin basically shat on Psylocke when she tried to engage him in H2H.

Originally posted by leonidas
mandy wins, but i don't think it's because he's more skilled. his skilled coupled with his personal power is too much. i'd say it's a pretty dead-heat between rand and mandarin and in terms of pure skill and we have a good idea where danny ranks.

Originally posted by ODG
The butthurt comments are not directed at you. It's obvious who they're directed at. The level of martial arts mastery that Mandarin has is well above anything people like Batman, Wolverine and Cap can achieve. None of these esteemed fighters can chop steel doors with ease or rip apart Iron Man in straight H2H. That's all you need to know. You should re-read that issue more closely. Because that "fight" was a hologram ruse to turn Psylocke over under the Hand's and Mandarin's control. It's a complete non-fight as Mandarin never even fought her there. He wasn't even participating in the hologram. He was standing around watching monitors and sh1t:

So basically, you need to focus on their "second" fight -- which is their only actual fight -- where Mandarin basically shat on Psylocke when she tried to engage him in H2H. It's by skill that Mandarin achieves his superhuman karate feats. He is obviously more skilled than Batman, Wolverine or Captain America. Because they cannot achieve what he can with bare hands. And since your conception seemed to be largely based on ignoring Captain America being overwhelmed and misreading a non-fight holo-deck session that Mandarin wasn't even inside of, I'd say you need to rethink things more carefully.

ah, i stand rebuffed on their first fight. what i get for relying purely on memory and not rereading the book.

i still disagree with your overall premise however. i wouldn't say danny is definitively more skilled than cap or logan or bp or bats either, and yet it is because of his 'skill' that he has achieved the mastery of his chi that he has. the same thing applies to mandarin imo. i'm legitimately curious: danny can do every bit as much damage as mandarin can, and has feats at least his equal. would you say mandarin would beat down danny in a battle of pure skill?

Originally posted by leonidas
ah, i stand rebuffed on their first fight. what i get for relying purely on memory and not rereading the book.

i still disagree with your overall premise however. i wouldn't say danny is definitively more skilled than cap or logan or bp or bats either, and yet it is because of his 'skill' that he has achieved the mastery of his chi that he has. the same thing applies to mandarin imo. i'm legitimately curious: danny can do every bit as much damage as mandarin can, and has feats at least his equal. would you say mandarin would beat down danny in a battle of pure skill?

That's pretty much the worst loss of his career. And an apt example of a master martial artist that easily rivals, if not surpasses Batman in skill, trying to fight Iron Man in straight H2H and failing spectacularly. And this was at a time when Danny was embarrassing Wolverine and defeating Sabretooth while weakened and blind. These days? As the Immortal Iron Fist? Danny's got a better chance, or he's capable of beating Mandarin straight up.

But what does it matter exactly? Both Mandarin and the Immortal Iron Fist would beat the sh1t out of Batman, Wolverine and Captain America in pure H2H.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/68727/1285169-mikefichera__mandarinringsuni.jpg

I'm pretty sure the writers ran out of ideas for decent powers after, like, the 5th ring, and just went with any random crap they could come up with after that. Influence? Daimonic? The Liar? Lulz.