It is hard to eyeball it and not helping matters is Bills world not looking like a planet at all. Arguments can be made for both point of views though.
If they are just King Kai sized moons then the feat is so so but if the intention if for them to be more or less the size of our moon then the feat is awesome.
@Galan...
I understand everything you're saying, I just can see SS4 Goku one shotting Majin Buu, Gohan, etc...like Bills did. Cell and Frieza isn't comparable to any of the people I've named...not even close. Don't know why Omega Shenron was brought up...we would have to get a bead on where Goku stands against Bills first in order to determine if OS stands a chance against Bill. Also, do you truly believe SS4 Goku can take a SS3 down with a touch like Bill did? I honestly can't see it. The Gohan that Bill one shotted was the same Gohan that was>>>>SS3.
Carver think of this. Base Gokou in GT as a kid is on par with ssj3 Gokou that was owned by Bills with ease. So ssj4 Gokou is at the lowest 8,000x stronger than the Gokou that Bills fought. So yes, ssj4 Gokou, scaled power level wise anyway, could take the z fighters down from end of z just as easily as Bills did.
Originally posted by Kento
Carver think of this. Base Gokou in GT as a kid is on par with ssj3 Gokou that was owned by Bills with ease. So ssj4 Gokou is at the lowest 8,000x stronger than the Gokou that Bills fought. So yes, ssj4 Gokou, scaled power level wise anyway, could take the z fighters down from end of z just as easily as Bills did.
What showing from GT makes you think base Goku is as strong as SS3 Goku?
Originally posted by carver9Have you read what Galan has said? Base Kid Gokou was able to fight Rildo who Gokou stated to be stronger than Majin Buu. SSJ3 Goku in the Buu saga was weaker than Majin Buu. So power level wise, not feats, just stated facts from GT, Kid Gokou at base is as strong as he was when he fights Bills.
What showing from GT makes you think base Goku is as strong as SS3 Goku?
Originally posted by Kento
Carver think of this. Base Gokou in GT as a kid is on par with ssj3 Gokou that was owned by Bills with ease. So ssj4 Gokou is at the lowest 8,000x stronger than the Gokou that Bills fought. So yes, ssj4 Gokou, scaled power level wise anyway, could take the z fighters down from end of z just as easily as Bills did.
Originally posted by Kento👆
Have you read what Galan has said? Base Kid Gokou was able to fight Rildo who Gokou stated to be stronger than Majin Buu. SSJ3 Goku in the Buu saga was weaker than Majin Buu. So power level wise, not feats, just stated facts from GT, Kid Gokou at base is as strong as he was when he fights Bills.
Originally posted by Kento
Have you read what Galan has said? Base Kid Gokou was able to fight Rildo who Gokou stated to be stronger than Majin Buu. SSJ3 Goku in the Buu saga was weaker than Majin Buu. So power level wise, not feats, just stated facts from GT, Kid Gokou at base is as strong as he was when he fights Bills.
But Base Goku was unable to defeat a full powered Rildo, he had to go Super Saiyan and even then, he didn't have enough power to get the job done due to Rildo metallic form.
You can't compare the SS3 Goku to the one that fought Buu. A lot of time passed since their last confrontation with Buu and SS3 Goku pretty much trained during that large gap. I can understand if Goku sat around like Gohun did but as shown on the KI planet, he was still going through stages of training.
Also, Super Saiyan 3 Goku said that he can beat both Fat Buu and Kid Buu with one attack.
Originally posted by carver9Which, means nothing except that Base Kid Gokou is still above Buu Saga ssj3 Gokou's level in GT.
But Base Goku was unable to defeat a full powered Rildo, he had to go Super Saiyan and even then, he didn't have enough power to get the job done due to Rildo metallic form.You can't compare the SS3 Goku to the one that fought Buu. A lot of time passed since their last confrontation with Buu and SS3 Goku pretty much trained during that large gap. I can understand if Goku sat around like Gohun did but as shown on the KI planet, he was still going through stages of training.
Also, Super Saiyan 3 Goku said that he can beat both Fat Buu and Kid Buu with one attack.
Four years. That's enough time for ssj3 Gokou to have become > Kid Buu when he was lower than. Which puts them heavily in the same ballpark. And it's still BASE Gokou. Even if SSJ3 BoTG Gokou is even 100x stronger in four years. A ssj amp to GT Gokou was 100x. In the end ssj4 is still 8,000x to 32,000x stronger than the ssj3 Gokou from Buu Saga depending on if the other ssj multipliers double also or stay the same.
Which he proves about Fat Buu by hanging with Kid Buu, who decimated Fat Buu and Vegeta who are roughly equal. As for Kid Buu, the Buu's aren't really known for their durability, he just needed to create a blast strong enough that would completely erase someone he was equal too, and we've already shown they can create blasts that exceed over people stronger than them anyway. Also, that's not taking into account they still had no real idea Buu's power.
Besides comparing GT!Base to Buu, there's also Frieza. Its stated that BoG!Base is weaker than Frieza. GT!Base was playfully kicking around a iirc trained up Frieza and Cell together, let alone being on the level of Buu.
(Unnamed stages are all Goku)
BoG!Base < Frieza < Namek!SS1 < Pre-Android!SS1 << Androids < Post-Android!SS1 < Cell!SS1 < Cell << Cell!SS2 Gohan < Buu!SS2 << Buu!SS3 ≈ Majin Buu ≈ Base!Rildo ≈ GT!Base
If BoG!Goku can go from below Frieza to above Buu, picture how high GT!Goku will rise with his base being at this level.
The only way you can say Bills (not via possible feats but with scaling) has a chance against GT!Goku is to show that the difference between GT!Base and Bills is around the same as that of BoG!Base and Majin Buu.
The difference between BoG!SS3 and Bills would have to be around the same as that of BoG!Base and Majin Buu, if Bills is to defeat any form of GT!Goku.
Originally posted by BloodRain👆 it's really as simple as that.
Besides comparing GT!Base to Buu, there's also Frieza. Its stated that BoG!Base is weaker than Frieza. GT!Base was playfully kicking around a iirc trained up Frieza and Cell together, let alone being on the level of Buu.(Unnamed stages are all Goku)
< Frieza < Namek!SS1 < Pre-Android!SS1 << Androids < Post-Android!SS1 < Cell!SS1 < Cell << Cell!SS2 Gohan < Buu!SS2 << Buu!SS3 ≈ Majin Buu ≈ Base!Rildo ≈ GT!Base
[B]BoG!BaseIf BoG!Goku can go from below Frieza to above Buu, picture how high GT!Goku will rise with his base being at this level.
The only way you can say Bills (not via possible feats but with scaling) has a chance against GT!Goku is to show that the difference between GT!Base and Bills is around the same as that of BoG!Base and Majin Buu.
The difference between BoG!SS3 and Bills would have to be around the same as that of BoG!Base and Majin Buu, if Bills is to defeat any form of GT!Goku. [/B]
In BoG, Frieza was still more powerful than base Goku. In GT, base Goku was not only more powerful than Frieza, but he was also more powerful than Super-Perfect Cell. In fact, "more powerful" is an understatement, considering the effortless nature in which Goku trounced them. And if Goku was able to tool Cell+Frieza like they were fodder, then it gives credence to his claim that base Rildo was "more powerful than Majin Buu", as base Goku was only able to stalemate Rildo.
ie. base Rildo~base Goku>>>>Cell>>>>>>>>Frieza.
This is important because in Z, Goku didn't reach Buu-level power until he became a SSJ3.
ie. base Goku(GT)~/>SSJ3 Goku(Z).
...Then Goku transformed into a standard SSJ which, per Rildo, increased his power by "a hundred fold." Thus, GT Goku is, at the very least, 100x> SSJ3 Z Goku, as a friggin' SSJ1.
Lol, ridic.
Originally posted by BloodRainI posted it here:
Someone in fact posted the scene scans of it here, with Bills stating Goku as he is now could not defeat Frieza, which King Kai agrees to.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Someone in fact posted the scene scans of it here, with Bills stating Goku as he is now could not defeat Frieza, which King Kai agrees to.
Lol...that wasn't a powered up base Goku though. Lets not forget, the Goku that fought Frieza and Cell almost blew up the heavens when he powered up. So, yeah, I agree with You, base Goku during GT is more powerful than a non powered up base Goku.
👆
Bills(a phucking GOD) states that base Goku would not be able to defeat Frieza. KING KAI(the guy who has trained Goku for several years, and knows his power intimately) then AGREES with Bills' assessment.
This means base Goku, without the kaioken or SSJ multipliers, does not possess more power than Frieza, even if he powers up.
ie. Goku's base PL in BoG<120,000,000.
Simple.
Originally posted by Kento
Which with BoG saying Base Gokou is < Freeza, it skews power levels a whole lot.
I agree with you. A fully powered base Goku is greater than a non powered up base Goku. Goku almost destroyed everything when he powered up in GT in his base form, Goku in BOG didn't get the luxury of showcasing like GT Goku did.