Originally posted by carver9You could possibly make this comment, possibly, it it was not for King Kai seconding it.
Lol...that wasn't a powered up base Goku though. Lets not forget, the Goku that fought Frieza and Cell almost blew up the heavens when he powered up. So, yeah, I agree with You, base Goku during GT is more powerful than a non powered up base Goku.👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Bills(a phucking GOD) states that base Goku would not be able to defeat Frieza. KING KAI(the guy who has trained Goku for several years, and knows his power intimately) then AGREES with Bills' assessment.This means base Goku, without the kaioken or SSJ multipliers, does not possess more power than Frieza.
ie. Goku's base PL in BoG<120,000,000.Simple.
I understand that...base Goku during GT was a plot...lets not forget, he defeated an android that took out the entire group of Z fighters effortlessly. I agree with you but you also have to look at other factors as well.
Originally posted by Galan007It was said, and its the newest thing to come out. It just messes up a lot of things. Like how Vegeta or Gokou expected to have any kind of fight against 18 or win with ssj forms not allowed during Buu Saga.
Bills(a phucking GOD) states that base Goku would not be able to defeat Frieza. KING KAI(the guy who has trained Goku for several years, and knows his power intimately) then AGREES with Bills' assessment.This means base Goku, without the kaioken or SSJ multipliers, does not possess more power than Frieza.
ie. Goku's base PL in BoG<120,000,000.Simple.
Or that in like ten years Gokou can't get 50x more powerful than he was on Namek. When in 2 years he went from 400 to 3,000,000
Or how base Vegeta > ssj Kid Trunks who is in the same ballpark as 18.
Originally posted by carver9There are no other factors.
I understand that...base Goku during GT was a plot...lets not forget, he defeated an android that took out the entire group of Z fighters effortlessly. I agree with you but you also have to look at other factors as well.
Bills is a God who gave us no reason whatsoever to question his word while assessing his opponent's power. King Kai has trained Goku since the Saiyan saga, and has literally watched his power evolve first hand over the years. They BOTH agreed that base Goku<Frieza, without power multipliers like SSJ(and I would assume, kaioken.)
The evidence is unarguable.
Or how base Vegeta > ssj Kid Trunks who is in the same ballpark as 18.
Originally posted by carver9Without a doubt Kaioken Goku would defeat Frieze. I'd even be surprised if he needed to go as high as x3. But the point is that BoG!Base is below Frieza, which on the scale means the Goku that fought Bills can be compared to GT!Base.
Like I've stated, I agree but I think we can also agree that Kao K Goku would work Frieza as well.
Originally posted by KentoThat post wasn't directed at you, btw. 😉
It was said, and its the newest thing to come out. It just messes up a lot of things. Like how Vegeta or Gokou expected to have any kind of fight against 18 or win with ssj forms not allowed during Buu Saga.Or that in like ten years Gokou can't get 50x more powerful than he was on Namek. When in 2 years he went from 400 to 3,000,000
Or how base Vegeta > ssj Kid Trunks who is in the same ballpark as 18.
Regardless, Bills' comment does make it seem like base Goku's PL was at least close to Frieza's. So if base Goku had a PL of 100m in BoG(which is reasonable in comparison to Frieza's PL of 120m), it puts his SSJ PL at 5b, his SSJ2 PL at 10b, and his SSJ3 PL at 40b *m=million, b=billion*
...Personally, I don't see the problem. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007😆 I know, I just have a hard time buying Base Gokou < Freeza five years after Buu Saga.
That post wasn't directed at you, btw. 😉Regardless, Bills' comment does make it seem like base Goku's PL was at least close to Frieza's. So if base Goku had a PL of 100m in BoG(which is reasonable in comparison to Frieza's PL of 120m), it puts his SSJ PL at 5b, his SSJ2 PL at 10b, and his SSJ3 PL at 40b *m=million, b=billion*
...Personally, I don't see the problem. /shrug
The things Goten and Trunks do mostly, and the length of time, and the much high power gap Gokou and the Z fighters crossed in half the time.
Originally posted by KentoI agree, but hey, Akira was all about retcons/changes/revelations in this movie... He used the film to retool the DBZ-verse's entire fraggin' cosmological structure, for crying out loud.
😆 I know, I just have a hard time buying Base Gokou < Freeza five years after Buu Saga.The things Goten and Trunks do mostly, and the length of time, and the much high power gap Gokou and the Z fighters crossed in half the time.
But with that movie it also proves Tarble is canon. Who Goten and Trunks fought Freeza level beings. And while it just says as strong as Freeza, it is impossible to be first form Freeza, because 50x his first form doesn't come anywhere close to his full power. And at ssj they are a match for 18. So right there 18 has to be at least 50x more powerful than Final Form Freeza. Based off of feats. Which means that anybody that's stronger than her just super saiyan is > Freeza at base.
It just throws everything out of wack. Because if Gokou isn't freeza level 17 years after Freeza, then Cell isn't really that much more powerful than Freeza. And his solar system boasting really goes down hill.
How powerful is the Super Saiyan God form in comparison to an SS3? We already know that the SS4 Goku is roughly 8000x stronger than the SS3 Goku whom Bills 2-shotted, but without a proper gauging of the SSG's level of power, it's difficult to decide how Bills would hypothetically fare against GT's SS4s.
Originally posted by Kento
Which with BoG saying Base Gokou is < Freeza, it skews power levels a whole lot.
Yeah, that really doesn't make much sense at all. Goku at base form at this point should be noticeably beyond Freeza. Maybe Bills was sensing base base Goku.
Even Gotenks and kid Trunks as Super Saiyans can beat Freeza at this point no?