OWAW Superman/WarHulk vs Odinfirce Thor/Voidsentry

Started by ODG10 pages

Yeah. I basically just glossed over ONLY the first year of published Superman stories. And not only do we get the same exact super-powers, the same description of said superpowers (nearly word for word), the same emergence and maturation of those super-powers, the same feats, the same upbringing and moral compasses, the same adventures, we also get their similar appearance and even similar monikers.

Of course, here we are in this thread where you professed to know everything about Hugo Danning and what did you say? Oh yes:

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Though in the case of Superman, the role of Glads if any would be minimal at best, as all those traits were already there
I expect even someone as butthurt as you can't even look at what I just listed and willingly state that Wylie's Hugo Danning was "minimal" to Superman. Like... you have to be really dumb and/or butthurt. You know what wold drive the point home even more? The fact that I only limited the strict ripoff examples to the very first year of published Superman comics. Shall I list some other similarities that Superman eventually shared? Yea, why not. I don't have scans for these yet, but these are all really well-known facts for any self-professed fan of Superman:

^Hugo was the first with Superstrength and he was the first with invulnerability? Cute.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ODG is posting evidence. All of the heroes are usually inspired elsewhere. Why is this so hard to take in. Superman is not the exception and until you post evidence claiming someone is envious doesn't hold any weight in a debate.

Sure no one denies that Superman, like most characters in fiction, was inspired elsewhere. His sources are, and ODG agrees to some extent, Hercules, Moses, Samson, maybe even Siegfried, Achilles, most likely Jesus etc. So many sources to create something new. And maybe, a little bit Glads, who himself was inspired by some of those sources. That's not the discussion.
What ODG claims is, that Jerry and Joe looked at Glads and copied Superman from him, which is false, entirely. It also contradicts their own statement which makes perfect sense, when you look at Hercules, Samson, Moses, Jesus etc.

Sentry is called a Superman clone by his creator. CM was an direct order to copy him. Simple.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I wonder why Supes has so much haters? Envy?

There are many reasons and here are few of them:

- he is a boring character,
- it's impossible to relate to him,
- he has a lot of power, but he barely does anything with it,
- he gets worshipped by his writers, who give him feats without any reason,
- Silver Age,
- Supergirl, Superboy, Power Girl, Krypto, Superanimal League,
- HIS GOD DAMN FANBOYS!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
We still talk about the first COMIC Superhero who started it all. And that is still Superman, without him we wouldn't have Superhero comics. He is the original and CM, Sentry, Marvelman, Gladiator, Hyperion and many others are his direct comic ripoffs.

There is something I actually really like about Killermovies and it's that the mod usually let you talk trash without instantly banning you.
I don't mind it at all, when someone insults me, because I do it to others as well and you Batman-Prime are an incredibly stupid person.

To say that without Superman we wouldn't have superhero comic books is such a ridiculously retarded statement, damn dude ... You act like Superman was the idea for the first superhero, while in fact he wasn't at all ... Superman was inspired by the Gladiator, who most likely was inspired by John Carter, who maybe was inspired by mythological characters.

But besides Superman we already had superheroes prior to that:

1. Zorro, a masked vigilante, who was carrying a sword and fighting against corruption. Batman is based on that guy.

2. The Shadow, a masked vigilante, who was carrying two guns and fighting against gangsters. Batman is also based on that guy.

3. The Phantom, a masked vigilante, who was carrying around various weapons and fighting against typical bad guys.

All of them had their adventures before Superman came out.
To say that without Superman we wouldn't have comics is ... as retarded as it gets, really. That's like saying that no one ever would have come up with the idea to try putting that stuff into newspaper and also that Stan Lee never would have created great characters.

Speaking of Stan Lee and great characters...
As I wrote it before: Superman, Supergirl, Superboy, Power Girl, Krypto and a bunch of Superanimals. Then also Flash and 4-5 other Flashes. The same applies for the Green Lanterns and so on.

Thank Marvel that we have some actual character variety in comic books. If it was for DC and Superman comics would be boring as hell.

There is NOTHING Superman did for comic books, besides giving us a insanely stupid Silver Age.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^Hugo was the first with Superstrength and he was the first with invulnerability? Cute.

Sure no one denies that Superman, like most characters in fiction, was inspired elsewhere. His sources are, and ODG agrees to some extent, Hercules, Moses, Samson, maybe even Siegfried, Achilles, most likely Jesus etc. So many sources to create something new. And maybe, a little bit Glads, who himself was inspired by some of those sources. That's not the discussion.
What ODG claims is, that Jerry and Joe looked at Glads and copied Superman from him, which is false, entirely. It also contradicts their own statement which makes perfect sense, when you look at Hercules, Samson, Moses, Jesus etc.

Sentry is called a Superman clone by his creator. CM was an direct order to copy him. Simple.

Why would the creators admit as much. Its obvious based on the evidence that is what happened. Let it go. He isn't some completely original hero and like all the others was inspired by presaging myth and heroes.

Sentry is far different than Superman in terms of personality and powers unlike Hugo and Superman originally was. It is fine if they copies some elements of Superman and improved on it. Sentry is exciting and scary at the smart time. This is all subjective now who likes what with regards to personal preferences but the scans make it clear he was coped from this Hugo character. The proof has been posted. Who cares that Superman is like all the rest. I sure don't.

Other blatant similarities between Hugo Danner and Superman that eventually bear out (just not in the very first year of Superman's existence):

12. Hugo Danning was raised by kindly parents in a small town in rural Colorado, on a farm. Superman was raised also, by kindly parents in a small town in rural Kansas, on a farm. This part of Superman's history wasn't introduced until later as little attention was paid to the Kents and Clark's original home at first.

13. Hugo Danning drew great regret over having broken a fellow child's arm with his super-strength accidentally. His first serious accident with his super-strength as a child. This also happened in front of his only childhood crush. I also previously mentioned that he also eventually quit playing football because he accidentally killed a player on the field. Sound familiar? Yea, a young Superman broke Pete Ross' arm when they were playing football in front of Lana Lang. Clark never played football again after that.

14. A child Hugo Danning lifted up a broken supply wagon over an injured man who had been pinned underneath it. Sound familiar? Yeah, a young Clark Kent would do the same for his old Pa Kent with a broken tractor in many retellings of his childhood.

15. I already mentioned Hugo Danner experiencing wartime combat? That's because he fought the Germans in World War I. Rather extensively, I might add. He became a legend on the battlefield while retaining his anonymity. Superman eventually fought the Germans in World War II rather extensively in 1943 and thereafter. The difference in war campaigns being obviously explained by the fact that WWII hadn't even started when Hugo Danner was published in 1930.

16. Hugo Danner would retreat to North Canada to a personally built refuge for peace and quiet when he became disillusioned with humanity. Superman would eventually retreat to the Fortress of Solitude in the Antarctic for peace and respite also. Although we should all acknowledge that even though Hugo Danning had a retreat first, Siegel and Shuster ripped off Doc Savage for this one. After all, Doc Savage who was also published before Superman had his own named "Fortress of Solitude" first... except his was in the Arctic. Yea... Siegel and Shuster, super-original guys.

17. This author who wrote about the recent Man of Steel describes this next one best:


"Which is what makes reading Wylie's Gladiator alongside the latest Superman movie so strange. I don't know if Zach Snyder or his screenwriters ever heard of Hugo Danner or Philip Wylie. Who would inflict that book on themselves if they didn't have to? There's a good chance the screenwriters simply took a hard-eyed look at the loneliness of difference and came to some of the same conclusions as Wylie.

And yet. I can't help considering the dramatic moments where this dark center of the story finds expression.

There's the bullying of the hero by other children; the parental admonition to keep the powers secret; the inadvertent display of strength after a road accident; the misunderstandings from adults in the aftermath. And all of that giving rise to our wandering, melancholy-but-my-how-handsome bearded man on a boat.

If you think I'm only describing Snyder's movie, readjust. Everything just listed also happens in Gladiator.

'The offshore breeze stirred his dark hair. There was a growth of equally dark beard on his tanned jaw and cheek. Steely muscles bulged under his shirt.'

That's Hugo Danner at sea, partway through chapter ten."

DAMN ODG is smart AF. Exposing Superman as a sham. I hope Ahbi is crying as he's taking the scissors to his Superman pajamas. Batman Prime hasn't responded because he's in jail for domestic violence. Probably hit his wife he was so mad at ODG's ownage.

Disillusioned Superman fans for the lose.

ODG and good comic characters for the win.

Originally posted by Enzeru
There are many reasons and here are few of them:

- he is a boring character,
- it's impossible to relate to him,
- he has a lot of power, but he barely does anything with it,
- he gets worshipped by his writers, who give him feats without any reason,
- Silver Age,
- Supergirl, Superboy, Power Girl, Krypto, Superanimal League,
- HIS GOD DAMN FANBOYS!

There is something I actually really like about Killermovies and it's that the mod usually let you talk trash without instantly banning you.
I don't mind it at all, when someone insults me, because I do it to others as well and you Batman-Prime are an incredibly stupid person.

To say that without Superman we wouldn't have superhero comic books is such a ridiculously retarded statement, damn dude ... You act like Superman was the idea for the first superhero, while in fact he wasn't at all ... Superman was inspired by the Gladiator, who most likely was inspired by John Carter, who maybe was inspired by mythological characters.

But besides Superman we already had superheroes prior to that:

1. Zorro, a masked vigilante, who was carrying a sword and fighting against corruption. Batman is based on that guy.

2. The Shadow, a masked vigilante, who was carrying two guns and fighting against gangsters. Batman is also based on that guy.

3. The Phantom, a masked vigilante, who was carrying around various weapons and fighting against typical bad guys.

All of them had their adventures before Superman came out.
To say that without Superman we wouldn't have comics is ... as retarded as it gets, really. That's like saying that no one ever would have come up with the idea to try putting that stuff into newspaper and also that Stan Lee never would have created great characters.

Speaking of Stan Lee and great characters...
As I wrote it before: Superman, Supergirl, Superboy, Power Girl, Krypto and a bunch of Superanimals. Then also Flash and 4-5 other Flashes. The same applies for the Green Lanterns and so on.

Thank Marvel that we have some actual character variety in comic books. If it was for DC and Superman comics would be boring as hell.

There is NOTHING Superman did for comic books, besides giving us a insanely stupid Silver Age.

So you admit that your opinion is just based on hate and spite alone, good, that's a progress.

I don't think it's good to insult people. I know that is quite common. You are safe behind your screen and forget all your good manners. Most aggressive and insulting people tend to be really sad and pityful. They would never speak this way to one in person only if they feel safe behind their screen. It's a shame and one can pity those because life has to be hard and they have to suffer a lot in their daily life, if they are so full of hate, agression and rage.
I tend to laugh at it, pity them a bit and make some fun out of them, so they can rage more and might feel better. But you can't take them seriously.

If you would read the original post of mine, you would read also the words "most likely". We wouldn't have the Superhero comics we have now, that's most likely. Might be there would be different ones, might be no Superheros at all (lack of success), we will never know. What we know is the FACT that superman started it all.

Your opinion, and your hate, differ from my opinion and my interests, I like both, marvel and dc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why would the creators admit as much. Its obvious based on the evidence that is what happened. Let it go. He isn't some completely original hero and like all the others was inspired by presaging myth and heroes.

Sentry is far different than Superman in terms of personality and powers unlike Hugo and Superman originally was. It is fine if they copies some elements of Superman and improved on it. Sentry is exciting and scary at the smart time. This is all subjective now who likes what with regards to personal preferences but the scans make it clear he was coped from this Hugo character. The proof has been posted. Who cares that Superman is like all the rest. I sure don't.

They told us right away who inspired them. The idea of Superman came even before that, inspired by Nietzsche and Superman was, at his very first incarnation evil. That might be something you would like Quan^^.

Sentry is according to his creator a Superman Clone. He should know best.

Originally posted by Raisen
DAMN ODG is smart AF. Exposing Superman as a sham. I hope Ahbi is crying as he's taking the scissors to his Superman pajamas. Batman Prime hasn't responded because he's in jail for domestic violence. Probably hit his wife he was so mad at ODG's ownage.

Disillusioned Superman fans for the lose.

ODG and good comic characters for the win.

Nice try. But look at what he posted. Seriously, I can expand this list.

Superman is male, has eyes, blue eyes, hair, black hair, he has legs, he is male, he has muscles, he has parents, no... they are dead... no they are alive,... no he is an orphan... he wear a cape... no forget the cape and costume... he has a secret identity... no forget this.... he is strong, like hercules, i mean glads...

It's funny.

ODG said Superman is a ripoff, of Glads+Hercules+Samson+Moses+Jesus etc. Now he is just the ripoff of Glads only. el oh el.

So we see that Superman was evil at first, inspired by myth and literature, like Nietzsches Also sprach Zarathustra and was created as something new and unique. Sure you will find common traits from myth and history, that's the case with every hero, with good vs evil. But he was never designed as a Glads copy. Unlike Sentry or CM, who were direct copies, admitted so by their creators.

Deny it as much as you want, hate and rage, you won't change the facts and history.

BTW ODG if you go further and take the comics from the 1950-2013 you will sure as hell find even more pictures or deeds that are similar to Glads, or HErcules, or Samson... 😉 el oh el

Oh you took the Man of Steel movie? Well, Jerry Siegel and joe Shuster should be ashamed to have made this movie, how could they copy... wait a second!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
BTW ODG if you go further and take the comics from the 1950-2013 you will sure as hell find even more pictures or deeds that are similar to Glads, or HErcules, or Samson... 😉 el oh el

Oh you took the Man of Steel movie? Well, Jerry Siegel and joe Shuster should be ashamed to have made this movie, how could they copy... wait a second!

You got bailed out bro?

Originally posted by Raisen
You got bailed out bro?

I work and can't always write at work because I have to... well work. You might try it once 😉.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I work and can't always write at work because I have to... well work. You might try it once 😉.

I work bro. i'm part of the superman creative team. I've actually been really busy researching hugo danning books in an attempt to come up with new superman ideas.

Originally posted by Raisen
I work bro. i'm part of the superman creative team. I've actually been really busy researching hugo danning books in an attempt to come up with new superman ideas.

That's ok, you are not Jerry Siegel or Joe Shuster after all 😉.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So you admit that your opinion is just based on hate and spite alone, good, that's a progress.

I don't think it's good to insult people. I know that is quite common. You are safe behind your screen and forget all your good manners. Most aggressive and insulting people tend to be really sad and pityful. They would never speak this way to one in person only if they feel safe behind their screen. It's a shame and one can pity those because life has to be hard and they have to suffer a lot in their daily life, if they are so full of hate, agression and rage.
I tend to laugh at it, pity them a bit and make some fun out of them, so they can rage more and might feel better. But you can't take them seriously.

If you would read the original post of mine, you would read also the words "most likely". We wouldn't have the Superhero comics we have now, that's most likely. Might be there would be different ones, might be no Superheros at all (lack of success), we will never know. What we know is the FACT that superman started it all.

Your opinion, and your hate, differ from my opinion and my interests, I like both, marvel and dc.

They told us right away who inspired them. The idea of Superman came even before that, inspired by Nietzsche and Superman was, at his very first incarnation evil. That might be something you would like Quan^^.

Sentry is according to his creator a Superman Clone. He should know best.

Nice try. But look at what he posted. Seriously, I can expand this list.

Superman is male, has eyes, blue eyes, hair, black hair, he has legs, he is male, he has muscles, he has parents, no... they are dead... no they are alive,... no he is an orphan... he wear a cape... no forget the cape and costume... he has a secret identity... no forget this.... he is strong, like hercules, i mean glads...

It's funny.

ODG said Superman is a ripoff, of Glads+Hercules+Samson+Moses+Jesus etc. Now he is just the ripoff of Glads only. el oh el.

So we see that Superman was evil at first, inspired by myth and literature, like Nietzsches Also sprach Zarathustra and was created as something new and unique. Sure you will find common traits from myth and history, that's the case with every hero, with good vs evil. But he was never designed as a Glads copy. Unlike Sentry or CM, who were direct copies, admitted so by their creators.

Deny it as much as you want, hate and rage, you won't change the facts and history.

Evidence has already been posted and your response are not filled with evidence. He was a blatant copy/rip off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Evidence has already been posted and your response are not filled with evidence. He was a blatant copy/rip off.

Let him be. His whole world is crashing down around him. Could you imagine what your life would be if someone proved to you that Thanos is a Darkseid/Metron rip-off? i'm pretty sure you would off yourself.

Originally posted by Raisen
Let him be. His whole world is crashing down around him. Could you imagine what your life would be if someone proved to you that Thanos is a Darkseid/Metron rip-off? i'm pretty sure you would off yourself.
Every idea is usually inspired by something before it. Thanos is an improvement and what Darkseid wishes to be when he grows up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Every idea is usually inspired by something before it. Thanos is an improvement and what Darkseid wishes to be when he grows up.

how can that be when thanos is metron and darkseid's love child? their intergalactic brokeback mountain offspring. product of darkseid's "Boom Tube".

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^Hugo was the first with Superstrength and he was the first with invulnerability? Cute.
Because, what... this is all that you took from everything I just listed? It hasn't sunk in yet? All this sh1t, it was all found in one short novel published in 1930. All before a single issue of Superman had ever been published: [list]
[*]the same exact originally delineated four super-powers: leaping, super-strength, above train running super-speed, and below heavy artillery durability;
[*]the same blatantly plagiarized "ants/grasshoppers" analogy for those super-powers;
[*]the same manifestation of super-powers when a baby down to the wrecked furniture;
[*]the same type of upbringing; including the
[*]the same moral compasses to do good with your powers when the time is right;
[*]the same hiding of those powers from the public even when publicly humiliated and bullied;
[*]almost the same exact same childhood home setting;
[*]the same childhood experiences and clumsy/tragic fumblings with powers growing up;
[*]the same original true feats of super-strength;
[*]the same random adventures -- and this sh1t is random... except when i isn't: like confronting selfish politicians, playing collegiate football, working in a carny strongman act, and bullying a bunch of corrupt officers/wardens over their torturing of prisoners, da phuck and this is just looking at the first 10 issues of Action Comics;
[*]similar globe-spanning lifetime experiences, such as heavy involvement in world war;
[*]the generally same frikkin appearance; and
[*]other cosmetic similarities like man of iron/steel parallels, etc.[/list]
Somehow... in your warped mind, Batman-Prime, Philip Wylie's Gladiator and the featured Hugo Danning character published in 1930, had "minimal" impact on Superman who was published in 1938. Your own words. You had the gall to say that from the start? And you manage to gloss over all this by only acknowledging the super-strength and invulnerability?
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Nice try. But look at what he posted. Seriously, I can expand this list.

Superman is male, has eyes, blue eyes, hair, black hair, he has legs, he is male, he has muscles, he has parents, no... they are dead... no they are alive,... no he is an orphan... he wear a cape... no forget the cape and costume... he has a secret identity... no forget this.... he is strong, like hercules, i mean glads...

It's funny.

N1gga, please. I'll accept your present inability to fashion a coherent response and drooling stupefaction over everything that's been laid out for what it is: you didn't know sh1t about Hugo Danner. And even if you did, you'd never admit how essentially tied he is to Siegel/Shuster's original Superman because you're butthurt that Siegel/Shuster could so blatantly rip off a single character on so many levels, in so many ways, both abstractly and minutely, bot implicitly and explicitly.

You really think you can utter the Greek legend of Heracles in the same breath as Hugo Danner? When did Heracles rip apart steel vault doors, lift cars over his head, be specified to run faster than a train or have below artillery-level durability, you mental midget?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
ODG said Superman is a ripoff, of Glads+Hercules+Samson+Moses+Jesus etc. Now he is just the ripoff of Glads only. el oh el.
Not what I said. Superman was inspired and eventually incorporated Hercules, Samson, Moses and Jesus themes. But he was a blatant ripoff of Hugo Danner. One fact is not mutually exclusive of the other.

quan, don't cry

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So we see that Superman was evil at first, inspired by myth and literature, like Nietzsches Also sprach Zarathustra and was created as something new and unique. Sure you will find common traits from myth and history, that's the case with every hero, with good vs evil. But he was never designed as a Glads copy. Unlike Sentry or CM, who were direct copies, admitted so by their creators.
You're really going to cite to Siegel/Shuster's unpublished and discarded, 1933 The Reign of the Superman cartoon of a bald, evil, posthuman with telepathy who gained his powers from an experimental serum who wanted to rule the world that has absolutely nothing in common with Superman as we know it? This is your argument now about how Siegel/Shuster made Superman so unique as the first and original superhero??????

Disregarding the fact that Siegel/Shuster completely abandoned this concept in all but name, you do know that Hugo Danner got his powers from an experimental serum and that in his later life, he was involved in a plot to take over the world with a race of supermen created from that serum because the world was populated by inferior men? And he was published in 1930, still before 1933.

No. No, I guess you wouldn't have known this. Otherwise you wouldn't have so blunderingly stomped your own foot into your mouth like this in such an uproarious fit of unintentional irony. Jesus H. Christ. Comedy gold.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Deny it as much as you want, hate and rage, you won't change the facts and history.
Can so much irony reside in so diminutive an intellect?

Good golly, miss molly. And beyond all of this, we haven't even ennumerated how Siegel/Shuster also ripped off the iconic flying from Captain Marvel, Supergirl from Mary Marvel, the Fortress of Solitude from Doc Savage as previously mentioned, the retconned heavy gravity of Krypton explanation for powers from John Carter of Mars/Aaron Munro, etc.

The saddest thing? You probably also knew very little of early Superman and his exploits too. Which is why I spent my time getting that first published year of Superman scans for you. Call it a pre-emptive cutting off of ignorant assertions being flung about as excuses. I certainly didn't want to deal with moronic statements like flying and heat vision or sunlight source being what make the original Siegel/Shuster Superman unique. That sh1t wasn't even part of his character for years, in some cases, decades. And I could have explored more issues. But you don't need to be grateful that I didn't belabor the obvious any further than I already did.

No. The only thing I expect from you is golden silence, infrequently broken by the sounds of weak excuses, trollish deflections, ironic self-projections, and the pathetic wails of dashed expectations. That last piece is not my fault though. I told you to read about Hugo Danner before continuing this conversation way back when it still had the chance of being constructive and civil. Needless to say, you declined that invitation of your own accord.

P.S. Fun fact: there's a reason that Marvel's resident alien Superman ripoff, Kallark, has the super-hero codename of "Gladiator."

ODG brought it full circle with the Kallark reference.