Darth Sidious vs Empire Strike Team

ROTS Sidious can take this. Cypher Nine and the Great Champion of the Hunt are non-factors. We have seen how Royal Guards and even Mandalorians fair against people of Yoda and Sidious' calibre. They fare as well as the two Mandalorians who got curbstomped by Sidious before the Maul and Savage fight. Considering the ease in which Sidious handled Maul and Savage, both of which are easily at the level of Dark Council members, I don't see Nox and the Wrath downing this Emperor. Sidious is Nox's superior force wise, and is the Wrath's great superior in sabers.

This battle would go like this.

Cypher Nine and the Great Hunter raise their weapons, Sidious with a gesture either KOs them via force push or force chokes them. Then Sidious pins the Wrath to the wall via TK, demolishes Nox with his saber, which considering Nox has no saber feats to speak of should be fairly easy for the Dark Lord to do even as he is suspending the Wrath. Then he would eviscerate the Wrath in whichever way he sees fit.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
yep

kill them now

Wow, **** off. The team dominates this biscuits

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
ROTS Sidious can take this. Cypher Nine and the Great Champion of the Hunt are non-factors.

I disagree. The Champion has shown himself to be an extremely high-level fighter, easily on the level of a Jedi Council or Dark Council member and above. Alone, sure he's no threat to Sidious but with 3 other powerful allies he is a threat to him, attacking him with heavy ordinance, missiles and flamthrowers while Nox attacks with the Force, Cipher 9 shoots at him and the Wrath engages with his lightsaber. As said in TOR, Sith have lightsabers for a reason. It only takes one quick shot and with all of them attacking him Sidious will be pressed in his defense.

Cipher 9 will likewise be annoying to Sidious with stealth, toxins or a sniper.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
We have seen how Royal Guards and even Mandalorians fair against people of Yoda and Sidious' calibre. They fare as well as the two Mandalorians who got curbstomped by Sidious before the Maul and Savage fight.

These guys survived the fight against Malgus. They are not nonfactors. They are above Royal Guards or average Mandalorians. If Sidious tries choking them they'll distract him through any number of ways they have available.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Considering the ease in which Sidious handled Maul and Savage, both of which are easily at the level of Dark Council members, I don't see Nox and the Wrath downing this Emperor. Sidious is Nox's superior force wise, and is the Wrath's great superior in sabers.

Nox and the Wrath are above Dark Council level and as a duo are above Maul and Savage.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This battle would go like this.

Cypher Nine and the Great Hunter raise their weapons, Sidious with a gesture either KOs them via force push or force chokes them.

Lolno. You assume their allies would just stand there and let the be taken out. What, are they just going t stand there with their thumbs up their asses? And not say, catch them before they hit the wall or break Sidious' concentration while he's choking them? Furthermore both of them have advanced armor and shields to prevent stuff like that.

Again, you could make the same case that Malgus takes them out that easily and guess what he did not.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Then Sidious pins the Wrath to the wall via TK, demolishes Nox with his saber, which considering Nox has no saber feats to speak of should be fairly easy for the Dark Lord to do even as he is suspending the Wrath. Then he would eviscerate the Wrath in whichever way he sees fit.

Again you're just assuming the team will just let him do these things. While he's concentrating on pinning the Wrath, Nox will be unleashing a lightning storm on him or the Champion will be firing missiles.

And why would Nox allow him to engage him with a lightsaber instead of attacking with the Force? The idea that Sidious will be able to pin the Wrath while blocking Nox' lightning long enough to push through and engage in lightsabers is absurd.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]I disagree. The Champion has shown himself to be an extremely high-level fighter, easily on the level of a Jedi Council or Dark Council member and above. Alone, sure he's no threat to Sidious but with 3 other powerful allies he is a threat to him, attacking him with heavy ordinance, missiles and flamthrowers while Nox attacks with the Force, Cipher 9 shoots at him and the Wrath engages with his lightsaber. As said in TOR, Sith have lightsabers for a reason. It only takes one quick shot and with all of them attacking him Sidious will be pressed in his defense.

There is absolutely nothing showing that he would be able to resist a force wave from Sidious, nor have any counter to neck snap. Both of which Sidious can do with a mere gesture. You forget that Sidious utterly annihilated 3 Jedi Council members even with the support of Mace Windu.

Cipher 9 will likewise be annoying to Sidious with stealth, toxins or a sniper.

Nothing a Force Wave wouldn't do. Sidious KOs with less difficulty than it took to take down Kolar.

These guys survived the fight against Malgus. They are not nonfactors. They are above Royal Guards or average Mandalorians. If Sidious tries choking them they'll distract him through any number of ways they have available.

Malgus has not displayed the raw TK nor the speed, nor the saber mastery of Palpatine.

Nox and the Wrath are above Dark Council level and as a duo are above Maul and Savage.

The Wrath's feats are comparable to Savage's and Nox's are comparable to Maul's.

Lolno. You assume their allies would just stand there and let the be taken out. What, are they just going t stand there with their thumbs up their asses? And not say, catch them before they hit the wall or break Sidious' concentration while he's choking them? Furthermore both of them have advanced armor and shields to prevent stuff like that.

Like Mace Windu was able to save Kolar? Or like Sidious was able to stop Yoda from utterly annihilating his guards? Dude I don't think you understand, there will be no concentration. Sidious can dismiss them with less than a gesture.

Again, you could make the same case that Malgus takes them out that easily and guess what he did not.

Malgus wasn't able to instantly neck snap them like Vader was able to to Kento Marek. His TK mastery is likely less and he requires more concentration. Sidious is able to casually dismiss non-force users with a gesture. C9 and the Champ will be liabilities more than help. + If Sidious moves faster than Anakin can follow there is no ****ing way non-force sensitives will be able to keep up.

Again you're just assuming the team will just let him do these things. While he's concentrating on pinning the Wrath, Nox will be unleashing a lightning storm on him or the Champion will be firing missiles.

And why would Nox allow him to engage him with a lightsaber instead of attacking with the Force? The idea that Sidious will be able to pin the Wrath while blocking Nox' lightning long enough to push through and engage in lightsabers is absurd.

Sidious is way faster than any combatant any of them have faced. Nox being able to even follow Sidious' movements to tag him with lightning is baseless. This is the same man who felled two of the greatest blademasters the order has ever produced before they could even complete a swing.

Also considering the ease with which he pinned Maul and Savage it isn't far fetched he could do the same with Nox and the Wrath.

Sidious could blitz Cipher Nine and the Great Champion before the other two can react unless you mean to imply that either are faster than Kit Fisto, who moves so fast Kenobi cannot follow his movements and Mace Windu who swings 24+blows per second.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sidious could blitz Cipher Nine and the Great Champion before the other two can react unless you mean to imply that either are faster than Kit Fisto, who moves so fast Kenobi cannot follow his movements and Mace Windu who swings 24+blows per second. [/B]

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
There is absolutely nothing showing that he would be able to resist a force wave from Sidious, nor have any counter to neck snap. Both of which Sidious can do with a mere gesture. You forget that Sidious utterly annihilated 3 Jedi Council members even with the support of Mace Windu.

How could I forget that, its one of the most notable scenes in the mythos. 😬 You forget that he didn't annihilate them with the Force. And Darth Tormen instantly blitzed a Sith Lord in a kaggath but lost to the Champion.

Sidious hasn't ever neck snapped anyone. Nox and the Wrath would block any Force Wave directed at them at the start of the fight.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Nothing a Force Wave wouldn't do. Sidious KOs with less difficulty than it took to take down Kolar.

A Force Wave would KO him? Nah, his armor would let him tank a wave, or he'd activate a shield or his allies will block it. Plus he'd likely be behind cover by that point.

I like how you're just assuming Sidious will be able to freely attack whenever he wants though. Because the strike team will be asleep by that point I guess.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Malgus has not displayed the raw TK nor the speed, nor the saber mastery of Palpatine.

So? He's not exactly far off him.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Wrath's feats are comparable to Savage's and Nox's are comparable to Maul's.

No, not really. Nox is a lot more powerful than Maul and the Wrath would kill a brute like Savage.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Like Mace Windu was able to save Kolar? Or like Sidious was able to stop Yoda from utterly annihilating his guards? Dude I don't think you understand, there will be no concentration. Sidious can dismiss them with less than a gesture.

I think you're wanking Sidious more than is warranted.

Lol @ Yoda annihilating his guards. Yeah, cuz Yoda did it just too fast for Sidious to do anything. And not that Sidious didn't even give a shit or was even aware Yoda was there at the time.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Malgus wasn't able to instantly neck snap them like Vader was able to to Kento Marek. His TK mastery is likely less and he requires more concentration.

False. In the Third Lesson he's able to snap the neck of a nearby Jedi while in a lightsaber duel and in Deception he kills a Jedi with a Force Push.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sidious is able to casually dismiss non-force users with a gesture. C9 and the Champ will be liabilities more than help. + If Sidious moves faster than Anakin can follow there is no ****ing way non-force sensitives will be able to keep up.

Lmao @ that noncanon feat. Try again bro.

Sidious dismissed two random Mandalorians. He won't be so effective against Cipher 9 or the Champion who would ignore the choke and just blast at Sidious until he lets go. Hell Tormen and Malgus showed off casual Force chokes too and guess how much that helped them.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Champ will be dead. Nox won't get the chance to charge a lightning storm because Sidious would have blitzed him by then.

He'll have to get through Nox's shields, as she's already shown herself capable of blocking lightsaber attacks with the Force. And I find the idea that Sidious will blitz a being of Nox's power to be laughable.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sidious is way faster than any combatant any of them have faced. Nox being able to even follow Sidious' movements to tag him with lightning is baseless. This is the same man who felled two of the greatest blademasters the order has ever produced before they could even complete a swing.

Also considering the ease with which he pinned Maul and Savage it isn't far fetched he could do the same with Nox and the Wrath.

Sidious could blitz Cipher Nine and the Great Champion before the other two can react unless you mean to imply that either are faster than Kit Fisto, who moves so fast Kenobi cannot follow his movements and Mace Windu who swings 24+blows per second.

This is ridiculous. You're acting as if Sidious is going to be easily pwn Vader and Dooku level opponents.

Except that they're more powerful than those two, so yeah its pretty far fetched.

Yeah I do think that since both are much more powerful than Kit and Mace didn't do that so whatever. 👆

Neph, do you have canonical evidence of the Cipher and Champion resisting telekinetic Force attacks?

Define "resisting."

I'm not saying they'll shrug them off, merely survive them should they be hit.

If he reaches out and starts to strangle them, is there evidence that they can survive it?

I don't consider that really something I need to prove, as he'll never be able to fully choke them out before he's forced to break it off to defend against Nox and Wrath.

Though as I said the Champion has fought Tormen and beat him, who shows off a casual Force choke in his first meeting and attacks with telekinesis in the cutscene before the fight (3.30) :

YouTube video

Cipher 9 has been hit with telekinetic attacks as well and fought on. Plus if he go by the lightside choices he's fought Jadus and forced him to go on the defensive. And of course both beat Malgus who as I argued above has very powerful TK and is able to swiftly neck snap or choke opponents.

Sidious doesn't need direct concentration to choke someone out, though, nor does he need to make gesture. Look at his entrance of Maul's citadel in the Lawless--The guys are floating into the air and choking out as he is greeting them.

True, but I still don't believe he'd be capable of choking them while besieged by the Wrath and Nox.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't consider that really something I need to prove, as he'll never be able to fully choke them out before he's forced to break it off to defend against Nox and Wrath.

Says who? I'm asking you to explain how they'd possibly defend against him crushing their windpipes. You're merely assuming that they can without offering evidence as to how.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Though as I said the Champion has fought Tormen and beat him, who shows off a casual Force choke in his first meeting and attacks with telekinesis in the cutscene before the fight (3.30) :

YouTube video

This is a little better, but doesn't quite satisfy the burden. The Champion was hit by Tormen's telekinesis, though he wasn't seriously injured and managed to dodge projectiles. From the looks of it, the fight then devolved into more physical combat, with Tormen pursuing with his lightsaber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cipher 9 has been hit with telekinetic attacks as well and fought on. Plus if he go by the lightside choices he's fought Jadus and forced him to go on the defensive. And of course both beat Malgus who as I argued above has very powerful TK and is able to swiftly neck snap or choke opponents.

My question isn't whether they've battled powerful telekinetics. My question is whether you have any evidence to suggest that they can outright resist it.

Pre Vizsla, Jango Fett, and Cad Bane are all Forceless mooks who have duked it out with skilled Force users before. But put them against any talented Force user, particularly a Sith, and the Sith has access to their full arsenal, I'd still say they'd go down pretty hard as long as the Force is in question.

Neph, I think you're missing MY's point: if Sidious can slaughter two celebrated swordsmen with his saber before Mace and Kit were able to do anything to him, then what makes you think the force users on this team can do something fast enough to prevent Sidious from dismissing the non-force users with a simple gesture. And yes, Sidious can instantly snap the wind pipes of a non-force users. Dooku can snap huge metallic columns with a gesture, so what makes you think Sidious can't do the same to some wind pipes? PIS?

Yeah, the Cipher and Champion have no hope here. Don't know about the other guys, though.

Sidious doesn't stand much chance against both Nox and the Wrath.

Originally posted by SJones91109
Sidious doesn't stand much chance against both Nox and the Wrath.

We really need to start making respect threads for easy access to information about these obscure characters.

I've made enough arguments about Nox that you should be aware of her feats by now. Or just read the second page of this thread.

I really don't retain the knowledge you offer. It'll be easier on all of us if you just went ahead and made threads for these characters.

All of us except me. >:[