Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not really as Grievous has enhanced speed and sensors that allow him to keep up with Jedi. If the Great Champion is indeed a cyborg with speed enhancements its plausible he could defeat Bariss. If not its ridiculous. No unenhanced human should be able to keep up with a force user.
That might've been true before TOR existed. As of now, every Muggle in the TOR character class selection (trooper, bounty hunter, agent, smuggler) have each kicked Sith and Jedi ass. Repeatedly.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not just the player classes. A LOT of people you fight in the game mention having beaten Jedi and Sith. From squads of soldiers to lone warriors. TOR era has extremely high combat prowess from Non-Force sensitives as well as the Jedi + Sith.Obviously its all just PIS though.
Just like Vizsla giving Maul one hell of a fight being PIS, and the fact that Revan considers defeating Mandalore a huge feat and the fact that Malak got his ass kicked by Mandalore, etc. A lot of Muggle-killing-Jedi-and-Sith PIS.
Don't forget about Durge, Grievous and Cad Bane! Also Jango Fett giving Kenobi a hard fight in G-canon. 👆
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Coleman Trebor is not notable.But Barriss Offee would WTFpwn Grievous. And your minority robot bounty hunter who wins via PIS.
(Also, Idk what the hell you're talking about, my SI never got implants.)
Trebor was still a Jedi Council member and a Jedi Master. Surely he could of just pwned Fett with the Force, amirite. :^y
Lmao, no she freaking wouldn't. Grievous would destroy her. As would the Bounty Hunter. He opens up with a flamethrower that can fill and kill an entire room with a single burst and has overwhelmed 'even well-trained Jedi and Sith' and if she tries to block it with a shield he unloads dozens of rockets possessing 'unmatched stopping power' into her. GG.
What, you never equipped two of these bad boys:
😬
They're mentioned in a quest on Nar Shaddaa, so they do canonically exist.
Normally, I'd say that these ToR writers are fecking a-holes that don't even think about PIS, but it kind of has to be like this. It would be terribly lame if the Champion never killed a Jedi or any other Force user in the entire game. You can't blame them, really.
Now, it's a completely different story when talking about fights such as Pre Vizsla VS Maul or Jango VS Kenobi.
Non-Force sensitives have taken on and even defeated their Force-using counterparts in all aspects of the mythos: The films, comics, games, tv shows and books. You can't lay it on Bioware, this is a fully established part of the mythos and theres plenty of precendent to having the TOR muggles be that good.
If anything, I would argue that the sources saying that Jedi can always beat a non-Jedi is the erroneous pov.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't forget about Durge, Grievous and Cad Bane! Also Jango Fett giving Kenobi a hard fight in G-canon. 👆Trebor was still a Jedi Council member and a Jedi Master. Surely he could of just pwned Fett with the Force, amirite. :^y
Lmao, no she freaking wouldn't. Grievous would destroy her. As would the Bounty Hunter. He opens up with a flamethrower that can fill and kill an entire room with a single burst and has overwhelmed 'even well-trained Jedi and Sith' and if she tries to block it with a shield he unloads dozens of rockets possessing 'unmatched stopping power' into her. GG.
What, you never equipped two of these bad boys:
😬
They're mentioned in a quest on Nar Shaddaa, so they do canonically exist.
Right, but that doesn't mean they canonically exist in all of the player characters in TOR mythos. I mean, with this kind of logic, I'm running around with a shield generator that isn't visible in any of the cutscenes, or if I used the Hide Head slot I'm cloaking my circlet/mask/antler horns with my amazing powers.
It's a gameplay mechanic. I don't know how you could argue it's valid.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Right, but that doesn't mean they canonically exist in all of the player characters in TOR mythos. I mean, with this kind of logic, I'm running around with a shield generator that isn't visible in any of the cutscenes, or if I used the Hide Head slot I'm cloaking my circlet/mask/antler horns with my amazing powers.It's a gameplay mechanic. I don't know how you could argue it's valid.
Concession accepted over the Champ vs Barriss.
Um, characters are running around with shield generators. Let me see, at least the.... Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Imperial Agent and the Trooper (huh, all the Non-Force sensitive classes) all mention them in their equipment pages in the TOR: Encyclopedia. The Smuggler has it installed in their belt. 😖hrug: It also says Bounty Hunters wear rocket boots. Proving once and for all that the Champ >>>>>>> lameass Offee.
Also if you pick an advanced class that can use a shield generator it will be mentioned in its codex page, in the conversation when you pick it, or in the description of the class when you get the options.
Stims and adrenals are also mentioned on the Hunters equipment page btw.
As to implants, I think its enough that they're available to any class. You're complaining that they're just an ordinary dude, when its entirely possible for them to be enhanced through various means (cyborg, stims + implants). You can't shrug it off as PIS when these things exist to explain away your problem with it.
So what? Lumiya handed Luke his ass in LOTF, but Luke would rightly stomp her in a SWVF thread. It's PIS. Since we don't script the fights, we must defer to the combatants with the greater skillset and power.
That is overwhelmingly Force users.
And who says that happens before Barriss uses the Force to go all Hulk on his Loki ass?