Its another example of Tormen having legit awesome TK abilities. He kills 4 soldiers with a large Force Wave and then starts Force Choking a guy without gesturing before flatout snapping the necks of him and 2 others.
Bioware specifically showed how good Tormens TK was and that he has no compulsion about using it to kill non-Force sensitives.
Comparing the Champ to those guys is dumb. Their equipment is "lightyears ahead" of a normal soldiers (an actual quote about it) and they are vastly more skilled. Tormen actually starts the fight by blasting them with TK and the Champ just gets back up, then Tormen throws a console at him and they dodge it.
So it was skill and Buzz Lightyear equipment that prevented Tormen from snapping the Champ's neck? Am I to assume that because something possibly didn't happen it's because of the virtue of the muggle who has no known defense and not the falling of the Force user? I can't subscribe to this kind of logic.
Er, yeah? How do you know the Champs armor doesn't have something to prevent a neck-snap? Hell, how do you know a neck-snap would even hurt a Champ who could be cybernetic?
Yeah, you are supposed to assume that. You have no evidence with which to lean towards PIS and evidence against that idea plus numerous sources that say that the Hunter can legit stand up to a Force User. Nothing, literally nothing since I have seen not one shred of evidence suggesting PIS, supports the PIS theory besides your personal bias, while the game makes it clear that the Champ really is Just. That. Good.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Er, yeah? How do you know the Champs armor doesn't have something to prevent a neck-snap? Hell, how do you know a neck-snap would even hurt a Champ who could be cybernetic?
This made me lol. The Champ could also be a female twi'lek, a chiss fatass, or a human with sunglasses tan lines. With his legit TK, Tormen could just as easily keep him pressed against a wall like Sids did to actual Force users easily, choke them to death like Vader does four times before breakfast, or whirlwind him like Malak is capable of doing.
Evident fact: TK is only blockable by Force users unless it is a push which is line of sight wavelength. This is why Vader stomps Han Solo and Boba Fett.
Yeah, you are supposed to assume that. You have no evidence with which to lean towards PIS and evidence against that idea plus numerous sources that say that the Hunter can legit stand up to a Force User. Nothing, literally nothing since I have seen not one shred of evidence suggesting PIS, supports the PIS theory besides your personal bias, while the game makes it clear that the Champ really is Just. That. Good.
Your mancrush for Champ is evident but you've ignored my points continually. In Movies Versus, quanch112 argues absolutely in favor of muggle Khan from Into Darkness over Yoda. Do you think he has a valid point too? He's danced arounbd TK like a spineless Jackie Chan with bullet ants up his ass. The bias is strong with that one.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This made me lol. The Champ could also be a female twi'lek, a chiss fatass, or a human with sunglasses tan lines. With his legit TK, Tormen could just as easily keep him pressed against a wall like Sids did to actual Force users easily, choke them to death like Vader does four times before breakfast, or whirlwind him like Malak is capable of doing.Evident fact: TK is only blockable by Force users unless it is a push which is line of sight wavelength. This is why Vader stomps Han Solo and Boba Fett.
Could be, but isn't provably. Your whole point is that theres no way the Champ could survive against Tormen, Seros or Jarro since they have the Force and can snap his neck. I brought up a way. I don't need to prove that its the case, just that its a possibility, thus rebutting your argument.
The Champ has ways of dealing with all of those things you mentioned. You can't easily pin someone to a wall when they're wearing rocket boots AND a jetpack AND can fire missiles at you. Same for the others. The Champ can escape a whirlwind via jetpack and can fire missiles to interrupt a Force choke, provided he even needs to.
Don't you mean, only IF its that? Also didn't Fett give Vader a good fight?
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Your mancrush for Champ is evident but you've ignored my points continually. In Movies Versus, quanch112 argues absolutely in favor of muggle Khan from Into Darkness over Yoda. Do you think he has a valid point too? He's danced around TK like a spineless Jackie Chan with bullet ants up his ass. The bias is strong with that one.
Your whole point is 'Force pwns lol". You've offered to actual evidence that its that easy and that theres no way to prevent it while I've offered stuff saying it can be done and theres the fact that he, y'know, actually did beat them? Look, I'll offer more evidence:
"Bounty Hunters are renowned for their versatility on the battlefield and their ability to go toe-to-toe with force-users. Their legendary abilities in this arena have earned them the nickname "Jedi Killers"."
And no, I don't think Quan has a point, but these are two different situations. Khan hasn't beaten several powerful Jedi and Sith in straight fights and isn't wearing state of the art battle armor + weapons. Some hunters spend as much on a blaster as they would on a starship, which should tell you about how damn well they're armed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Could be, but isn't provably. Your whole point is that theres no way the Champ could survive against Tormen, Seros or Jarro since they have the Force and can snap his neck. I brought up a way. I don't need to prove that its the case, just that its a possibility, thus rebutting your argument.The Champ has ways of dealing with all of those things you mentioned. You can't easily pin someone to a wall when they're wearing rocket boots AND a jetpack AND can fire missiles at you. Same for the others. The Champ can escape a whirlwind via jetpack and can fire missiles to interrupt a Force choke, provided he even needs to.
Don't you mean, only IF its that? Also didn't Fett give Vader a good fight?
He did and Vader acknowledged he'd done well but there's a few points.
The fight starts with Fett firing blasters, rockets etc and Vader just deflects or dodges everything. Vader starts using Force Crush and Fett jumps over a cliff. Vader rushes over (Fett has something he wants) and Fett nails him with a blaster shot between the eyes which stuns him for a moment.
Fett jetpacks up to the cliff. Vader says he did well and then uses Force Crush again. Fett kicks the item Vader wants over the cliff and escapes while Vader retrieves it.
So yeah, Fett held his own but he had no defense against Force Crush other than using the environment (i.e. the cliff edge). Also it's implied that Vader didn't open with Force Crush because he was toying with him. He says at one point, "I had hoped you would give me a contest bounty hunter. You must try harder" implying that he dragged the fight out for his own amusement.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Could be, but isn't provably. Your whole point is that theres no way the Champ could survive against Tormen, Seros or Jarro since they have the Force and can snap his neck. I brought up a way. I don't need to prove that its the case, just that its a possibility, thus rebutting your argument.
'No way' is incorrect. I said that IF a Force user applied TK liberally or at least consistently there's no reason to think they should lose a fight against someone else who couldn't defend against the technique. This is the same reason why Nihilus is a danger to most if not all Force users per your own comments and he lost to....Plot induced immunity.
The Champ has ways of dealing with all of those things you mentioned. You can't easily pin someone to a wall when they're wearing rocket boots AND a jetpack AND can fire missiles at you. Same for the others. The Champ can escape a whirlwind via jetpack and can fire missiles to interrupt a Force choke, provided he even needs to.
Don't you mean, only IF its that? Also didn't Fett give Vader a good fight?
See above. You can use the power more than just a one shot deal. This isn't a video game. Also, Vader could choke people across space and through starship hulls, so I'm sure if he just squeezed his fist, Boba would pass out unless Plot induced ADHD strikes Vader and he ignites his blade for an honorable bushido duel.
Your whole point is 'Force pwns lol". You've offered to actual evidence that its that easy and that theres no way to prevent it while I've offered stuff saying it can be done and theres the fact that he, y'know, actually did beat them? Look, I'll offer more evidence:
"Bounty Hunters are renowned for their versatility on the battlefield and their ability to go toe-to-toe with force-users. Their legendary abilities in this arena have earned them the nickname "Jedi Killers"."
And no, I don't think Quan has a point, but these are two different situations. Khan hasn't beaten several powerful Jedi and Sith in straight fights and isn't wearing state of the art battle armor + weapons. Some hunters spend as much on a blaster as they would on a starship, which should tell you about how damn well they're armed.
I used the example of Barriss and Phow Ji, who bare fisted killed several armed Confederate soldiers in Medstar... And they had distance on him too. Barriss notes that for all his strength, he is blind to the Force and has no defense against that permeating energy if brought to bear. You've countered with dodging a Force push, showings examples of Tormen killing everyone but the hero, and this quote about "toe to toe" which sounds like a load of wank.
Typing this out on a tablet is a pain in my ass. I'll bring something more definite later. This reply took half an hour...
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, but thats Vader. The guy can Force Crush tanks. Thats no indicative of other Force users.Though, was he crushing Fetts armor or Fett himself?
Yeah that's true.
I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure Vader bypassed the armour and was crushing Fett himself. I seem to recall the armour looked undamaged.
As I said I'm not completely certain. I no longer have the comic unfortunately.
BTW, I've just looked a few scans up. My mistake, Vader's first direct Force use was a Mind Trick which Fett resisted. He only resorted to Force Crush after Fett shot him.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also, Vader could choke people across space and through starship hulls, so I'm sure if he just squeezed his fist, Boba would pass out unless Plot induced ADHD strikes Vader and he ignites his blade for an honorable bushido duel.
That's pretty much what happened except it was less "honorable bushido duel" and more "I know I can easily beat you with the Force so I'll have some fun first."
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Force-backed arrogance strikes me as PIS or near to the same thing.
I see your point and I admit that for the purposes of this forum it comes to much the same conclusion but, and I know I'm being nitpicky here, I don't really see characterisation as "PIS". It's just part of a good story.
Remember characters are not automatons that always do the logical thing. They have personality traits that affect how they behave. If a villain chooses to fight rather than just going for an auto-win because he's cocky or sadistic etc, that just means he has a weakness that usually proves to be his undoing.
Sorry, but I just can't call having actual characters with actual personalities the same thing as PIS. Just my view.
Again, I do understand what you're saying.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
'No way' is incorrect. I said that IF a Force user applied TK liberally or at least consistently there's no reason to think they should lose a fight against someone else who couldn't defend against the technique. This is the same reason why Nihilus is a danger to most if not all Force users per your own comments and he lost to....Plot induced immunity.
Exactly. You're saying that there's no way except PIS to explain how the Champ could win. That just isn't the case my friend.
The Nihilus comparison doesn't fly. Nihilus' technique has demonstrated its power and how easy it is to do. Meanwhile you're arguing Force users will use the Force in ways they haven't to win and against canon examples of the Champ beating people with it. Nihilus was only beaten because he fought someone immune to his technique. If, instead he fought someone seemingly without that immunity who still beat him..... I'd argue that that guy is just that good. Or that Nihilus' technique isn't as infallible as it appears.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
See above. You can use the power more than just a one shot deal. This isn't a video game. Also, Vader could choke people across space and through starship hulls, so I'm sure if he just squeezed his fist, Boba would pass out unless Plot induced ADHD strikes Vader and he ignites his blade for an honorable bushido duel.
Sure, but its not like the Champs going to be just standing there letting them. He can freaking attack as well. They aren't going to have free reign to just constantly try to pin him down with the Force.
I'm not sure that its that simple against someone as strong-willed and well conditioned as Fett. Unless he did something super precise like pinch his brain stem or whatever. But no-ones ever actually done that.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I used the example of Barriss and Phow Ji, who bare fisted killed several armed Confederate soldiers in Medstar... And they had distance on him too. Barriss notes that for all his strength, he is blind to the Force and has no defense against that permeating energy if brought to bear.
Lmao, Phow Ji fights with his freaking hands. Of course whats he gonna do against the Force! Punch it? He has the single worst style of fighting to use against a Force user. You can't really compare him to the Champ who, lets face it, is basically Iron Man with guns.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You've countered with dodging a Force push, showings examples of Tormen killing everyone but the hero, and this quote about "toe to toe" which sounds like a load of wank.
No, this would be wank:
awepedo
Anyway, canon statements (thank you video devs) that Hunters can hang with the Force >> your opinion.
The only class I'd accept as being PIS in its wins is probably the Smuggler, since its noted that a lot of their edge comes from sheer luck.