Post-SWTOR Revan?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but Vitiate was heavily hit by the interruption from the (super) ritual he had orchestrated from their.

You misunderstand, a darkside nexus had nothing to do with being able to draw from the spirits. This is not the binding ritual used by Darth Nox. The Spirits=/=the Darkside nexus. Their presence may feed it, but they are still free to rage unless Vitiate expends energy calming them when in their presence.

That ritual was of unrivalled proportions and interruption from it may have even killed other participants barring Vitiate.

Probably planned to use the death of millions to consume the aggregate energy contained within the spirits of the Temple half-way to initiate his galactic Force-drain ritual, obliterating their essences and consuming more and more to create a vortex emanating from and returning to Droomund Kaas, from the entire galaxy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but Vitiate was heavily hit by the interruption from the (super) ritual he had orchestrated from their. That ritual was of unrivalled proportions and interruption from it may have even killed other participants barring Vitiate.

Yeah and he was recovering quickly from that failure, bolstered by the power of the temple. The same power which would weaken the HoT, on top of all the effort expended getting to him.

Darkside nexuses weakening light siders is fairly inconsistent. Unless there is actual proof that the HoT was weakened by it I'm inclined to say he wasn't.

Luke was weakened by that very temple 4000 years later, and he wasn't even that close to it, let alone inside it.

"And it should also be noted that according to Jedi Academy Training Manual a light siders force abilities do diminish while on a dark side nexus."

^ from Sidious66.

Source? And as I said it is inconsistent. Sometimes the Jedi is weakened but typically that isn't suggested.

Plus HoT can be a dark sider...

Edit: ah, I'll have to check out the training manual then.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, theres some evidence that I'd rather not show that directly indicates the Hero is more powerful than Revan.

There is?

Vitiate was weakened by his ritual, Scourge orchestrated that attack after having long studied the Emperor's weaknesses (SWTOR: Revan), HoT had the help of a Force spirit seemingly capable of resisting the darkside nexus of the temple according to as S_W__Legend pointed out, while HoT had great potential and may actually be given a name and gender, and another story arc in the future, there's no reason to assume he's more powerful than SWTOR Revan at this point in time. I'll even give you this, HoT may be stronger than the redeemed KoToR Revan. Maybe, we don't know yet.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, I realize that the Guards derive their powers from Vitate I read the book. However, you claimed that it was Vitiate that was suppressing the spirits and there is simply no concrete evidence that that is true.

Here is interesting revelation:

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Burial place, prison, and reliquary, the Dark Temple was built on the orders of the Emperor to seal away powerful artifacts and the Emperor's enemies, both alive and dead. The temple became a nexus of dark side energy as the Emperor performed rituals within, drawing strength and knowledge from his captives. The temple's twisted, grotesque architecture was specifically designed to focus and contain such corrupt darkness.

For centuries, the Dark Temple remained sealed. No Sith dared open the ancient prison for fear of Emperor's fury. But with the Emperor's recent absence, ambitious Sith Lords mounted a plan to crack open the Dark Temple and seize the powerful artifacts locked inside. Their plot ended up disaster when their forces were overwhelmed and driven mad by the spirit of Sith Lord Kallig. With the temple now opened and the malevolent spirits within awakened, the dark forces contained for centuries by the Emperor now threaten the very capital of the Empire.

Dark Temple is arguably the most dangerous place in the galaxy outside cosmic dangers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate could have sent Sith in well beforehand to prepare for his ritual and silence the ghosts. Or he could have just done it himself, but before his ritual. Theres no indication that he was weakened from holding them back or anything.

Originally posted by ares834
Source? And as I said it is inconsistent. Sometimes the Jedi is weakened but typically that isn't suggested.

Plus HoT can be a dark sider...

Edit: ah, I'll have to check out the training manual then.

Ascension.

Even if they are, they still draw on the lightside, not the dark iirc.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate was weakened by his ritual, Scourge orchestrated that attack after having long studied the Emperor's weaknesses (SWTOR: Revan),

Correct, but as I said, there are other factors at work.

Originally posted by Dolos
HoT had the help of a Force spirit seemingly capable of resisting the darkside nexus of the temple according to as S_W__Legend pointed out,

He's wrong. The HoT gets help from Ordus Din once and once only. It isn't something she continuously benefits from.

Originally posted by Dolos
while HoT had great potential and may actually be given a name and gender, and another story arc in the future, there's no reason to assume he's more powerful than SWTOR Revan at this point in time.

The HoT didn't just have great potential. They were the most powerful Jedi alive in the SWTOR era, including above the mighty Barsen'thor, another Jedi who is above Revan. 😉

Originally posted by Dolos
I'll even give you this, HoT may be stronger than the redeemed KoToR Revan. Maybe, we don't know yet.

Very kind of you.

But the HoT would spank Kotor Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not saying that Vitiate was weakened by holding back those ghosts but he had to put extra effort to hold them back.

Theres no evidence that it required him to put extra effort into holding them back. How do you know it isn't as simple as subduing them and thats it? Vitiate didn't need to put constant effort into holding them back before they woke up. If he put them back to sleep, I see no reason why he should need to apply additional effort after doing so.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
There is?

Not officially.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ascension.

Even if they are, they still draw on the lightside, not the dark iirc.

Been awhile since I read Ascnesion but I only recall Luke being weakened on Korriban, not Kaas.

And that is Tor being dumb as shit again. If you are using your anger, fear, hate, etc you are using the dark side.

The dark temple was name dropped as being something weakening them and strengthening the Sith they fight. I remember cuz I was preparing counter-arguments for if Tempest claims that the Dark Temple being still standing proves that Vitiate didn't destroy it (to which I'd point out that its 4000 yrs in the future so it could have been rebuilt).

Yeah, but all the Knights force use is still colored blue instead of red despite that. I dunno.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The dark temple was name dropped as being something weakening them and strengthening the Sith they fight. I remember cuz I was preparing counter-arguments for if Tempest claims that the Dark Temple being still standing proves that Vitiate didn't destroy it (to which I'd point out that its 4000 yrs in the future so it could have been rebuilt).

Yeah, but all the Knights force use is still colored blue instead of red despite that. I dunno.

Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak. And resistance to mind domination or to the dark side's affects suggests a strong mind, not necessarily a greater amount of Force energy.

Vitiate sensed great power in HoT, but then said that he lacked to will to harness it. Doesn't mean much either. HoT isn't a Skywalker, he had a biological father, his abilities may have been purely esoteric, like the Nightsisters.

There's nothing that puts HoT that far above Revan, and you're pretty much saying everyone is stronger than Revan, and based on your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate, I don't see HoT the same way you do.

Alright, fair enough.

And nah, the color of force use is pretty much inconsequential. It's probably just that way for ease of use.

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak.

There's nothing that put's HoT that far above Revan, not your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate.

😐 Except that he has way more better feats than Revan does. Maybe if you'd read his respect thread instead of saying things such as, "he's<<<<<Satele."

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the unquantifiably weakened Vitiate, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak.

There's nothing that put's HoT that far above Revan, not your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate.

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak. And resistance to mind domination or to the dark side's affects suggests a strong mind, not necessarily a greater amount of Force energy.

Vitiate sensed great power in HoT, but then said that he lacked to will to harness it. Doesn't mean much either. HoT isn't a Skywalker, he had a biological father, his abilities may have been purely esoteric, like the Nightsisters.

There's nothing that puts HoT that far above Revan, and you're pretty much saying everyone is stronger than Revan, and based on your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate, I don't see HoT the same way you do.

Dude, you are trolling. Do you just make this fact's up in your head? Bane was never ever stated as the most powerful Sith Lord in history, you are ****ing insane, Sidious is confirmed by George Lucas (G-CANON) to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
But HoT was also weakened, and Vitiate was amped by the Dark Side Nexus, on top of the fact that HoT had gone back to save Kira Carsen, and fought his way through Kaas City, I doubt he's 100%. In fact, Vitiate even says that HoT Diminished himself because he helped Kira.

How do you know exactly how weakened Vitiate was compared to when he fought Revan.

Your one single little argument, is unquantifiable. And, from what I can tell, bias toward a game you're spending money and time on - for whatever reason that makes you want to think HoT is stronger. IDK.

:facepalm:

just read the respect thread, and you will finally understand.