Mad Celestials vs RKT

Originally posted by zopzop
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

Jake, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD, the greater ramifications of Celestial slaying don't count because :
a) it's vs FOUR SPECIFIC ONES that aren't even native to 616 reality
b) these FOUR SPECIFIC Celestials are "Rogue"
c) this is a VS thread so greater ramifications be damned, each side is in it to win it

And if THING, FREAKING THING, survive multiple Rogue Celestials attacking him, I'm sure no one on the opposing team in this thread is gonna wilt and die from a blast or two from the Rogues. Sh|t, normal Thor took multiple Celestial blasts before falling down and he was still conscious and fighting.

It don't matter if it took young Thor 600 years to cast this SIMPLE enchantment, we're talking about RKT and Odin here. RKT and Odin are leagues and tiers above YOUNG THOR in terms of spell casting and enchanting. That's not even debatable.

Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.

And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).

And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.

My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? The only stated requirement was the blood of Odin and no large passage of time was indicated. It seemed that he went after Apocalypse soon after their first battle.

Based on what we know, and we've seen before, the most logical assumption is that a few runes are recited as you spill blood over the item in question. I say a few because it was called a simple enchantment and Thor isn't known for his spell casting, especially that incarnation of Thor.

Sure, you can assume it needed the sperm of the Living Tribunal or something but that seems somewhat unlikely imo.

Young Thor should have just done it while facing Apocalypse IMO.

Originally posted by zopzop
It don't matter if it took young Thor 600 years to cast this SIMPLE enchantment, we're talking about RKT and Odin here. RKT and Odin are leagues and tiers above YOUNG THOR in terms of spell casting and enchanting. That's not even debatable.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That's completely retarded and you know it.

So it doesn't matter how long it took a magic noob to cast the spell, RKT and Odin aren't magic noobs.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.

And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).

And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.

My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.

Am I reading you right?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So we can assume it's a mid battle enchantment then?

Young Thor should have just done it while facing Apocalypse IMO.

I think there must be some form of ritual involved (Probably some rune spell over blood) but Rune King Thor is so far and away above Young Thor, particularly in spell casting, that the idea of him not being able to accomplish any enchantment used by young Thor with a wave of his hand difficult to imagine. At least for me.

Now that you mention it, I think he probably cast it when Apocalypse threw the axe into his chest. mhmm

Originally posted by zopzop
How is it retarded? A complete freaking NOVICE cast that spell without skipping a beat (because it was, according to the very WRITER, a SIMPLE enchantment).

So it doesn't matter how long it took a magic noob to cast the spell, RKT and Odin aren't magic noobs.

Do you have any proof for that matter of any spell in history becoming faster just because of experience? Proof me Zop.

Also, prove it can be done in the middle of battle. Prove Odin knows how to do it off memory. Prove Thor remembered how to do it. Prove that it needed nothing more than an axe and inciting.

Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.

And people thought the Godblast being used in the middle of battles was reaching... at least we know that can be done...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.

😬

Uh, no it doesn't. Not at all. This was Odin's personal library. Mages learning spells, even those that they can cast in the heat of battle, from books, is literally one of the most common practices in this particular area of fiction.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That doesn't mean spells become instant just because they're more versed.

Do you have any proof for that matter of any spell in history becoming faster just because of experience? Proof me Zop.

Also, prove it can be done in the middle of battle. Prove Odin knows how to do it off memory. Prove Thor remembered how to do it. Prove that it needed nothing more than an axe and inciting.

Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.

And people thought the Godblast being used in the middle of battles was reaching... at least we know that can be done...

Well we'll see how this plays out, but I'm still sticking to my main points :
a) it wasn't a complex spell, it was a simple enchantment (writer's words)
b) a complete noob performed this enchantment

I'll leave it at that since I'm just repeating myself now.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think there must be some form of ritual involved (Probably some rune spell over blood) but Rune King Thor is so far and away above Young Thor, particularly in spell casting, that the idea of him not being able to accomplish any enchantment used by young Thor with a wave of his hand difficult to imagine. At least for me.

Now that you mention it, I think he probably cast it when Apocalypse threw the axe into his chest. mhmm

I forgot the time Odin enchanted Odin Sword and killed a bunch of Celestials. Or when not-young Thor did it in his three plus altercations with Celestials.

Originally posted by zopzop
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

Well we'll see how this plays out, but I'm still sticking to my main points :
a) it wasn't a complex spell, it was a simple enchantment (writer's words)
b) a complete noob performed this enchantment

I'll leave it at that since I'm just repeating myself now.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😬

Uh, no it doesn't. Not at all. This was Odin's personal library. Mages learning spells, even those that they can cast in the heat of battle, from books, is literally one of the most common practices in this particular area of fiction.

And has there ever been a scene where Odin read off a book on how to do something?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Right. Completely back out when asked for proof. Classic flopflop

Originally posted by zopzop
My proof was the writer's own words.

Link me to the interview

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The writer said it can be done in the middle of battle, and RKT can do it instantly?

Link me to the interview

Originally posted by zopzop

There, let people decide for themselves if RKT or Odin can perform this simple enchantment in the middle of battle.

Can you crop me the words where it says that? Maybe my eyesight is failing me.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That doesn't look like the writer saying it can be done in the heat of battle, and RKT can do it instantly.

Can you crop me the words where it says that? Maybe my eyesight is failing me.

Originally posted by zopzop
Since we're never going to agree on the enchantment, what's stopping RKT or Odin from tping the already enchanted Axe to their hand and slaughtering the 4 Rogues?

But yeah, I agree with you. But let's take it a step farther, why wouldn't RKT just summon the IG instead of an axe?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, I'm convinced.

I forgot the time Odin enchanted Odin Sword and killed a bunch of Celestials. Or when not-young Thor did it in his three plus altercations with Celestials.

The Celestial threat of War does not apply in this thread. There is no reason for Odin to be against using such a powerful tool because of the possible ramification of the entire race bearing down on Midgard/Asgard.

Also, you seem to not understand that a spell that was only recently revealed doesn't retroactively begin to exist in past comics.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Panel where Odin retains knowledge of how to do the spell please then?

And has there ever been a scene where Odin read off a book on how to do something?

It was a simple enchantment from Odin's own personal library. Why would there be any reason for him not to know it? Odin's old but he's never shown memory problems if that's what you're implying.

I understand not wanting Odin to use the spell here but resorting to such arguments is insulting to everyone's intelligence. I mean common, everything indicates that Odin came up with it in the first damn place. Not to mention Rune King Thor is in this fight.

We've seen Odin reading before if that's what you're asking.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Celestial threat of War does not apply in this threat. There is no reason for Odin to be against using such a powerful tool because of the possible ramification of the entire race bearing down on Midgard/Asgard.

Also, you seem to not understand that a spell that was only recently revealed doesn't retroactively begin to exist in past comics.

It was a simple enchantment from Odin's own personal library. And his reaction to Thor at the end of the comic indicates that he knows of it.

I understand not thinking that Odin would use the spell here but resorting to such ridiculously silly arguments is insulting to everyone's intelligence. It was a simple Asgardian spell in Odin's library. Chances are, he invented the damn thing himself.

We've seen Odin reading before if that's what you're asking.

So... there's no panel of Odin retaining knowledge of how to do it?

When that's the only thing to stop people from thinking that it gets used in the middle of battle with no prep is playing stupid, I can't see how it's any worse than you people actually thinking that with nigh no proof. If you expect me to play stupid to accept it, then I will play stupid, but not to play ball with you. 😬
If you're going to claim he does it in the middle of battle, and it's super easy and instant, then you damned right I'm going to ask proof of how easy it is, and it being accomplished in the middle of battle.

I have no problem with it being involved in a prep battle, but being used in the middle of battle with no proof just because it has an involvement with Young Thor? Stupid.
Though it's not far off every character summoning hyperspace against the Celestials because Zop was scorned. Can't wait till Hulk starts punching in a hyperspace dimension to destroy Celestials in threads.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It seems to retroactively exist in all threads involving Odin and Celestials though.
But we're not allowed to point out all the times it was never used again outside once? In fact it only seems to be a one of a kind enchantment for that matter...

So... there's no panel of Odin retaining knowledge of how to do it?

When that's the only thing to stop people from thinking that it gets used in the middle of battle with no prep is playing stupid, I can't see how it's any worse than you people actually thinking that with nigh no proof. If you expect me to play stupid to accept it, then I will play stupid, but not to play ball with you. 😬
If you're going to claim he does it in the middle of battle, and it's super easy and instant, then you damned right I'm going to ask proof of how easy it is, and it being accomplished in the middle of battle.

I have no problem with it being involved in a prep battle, but being used in the middle of battle with no proof just because it has an involvement with Young Thor? Stupid.
Though it's not far off every character summoning hyperspace against the Celestials because Zop was scorned. Can't wait till Hulk starts punching in a hyperspace dimension to destroy Celestials in threads.

Agree to disagree.

Although I don't understand how you think Odin and Rune King Thor replicating a simple enchantment (Not easily, just doable) is even remotely as silly as arguing that Odin doesn't know how to cast a spell that he's aware of, is in his own personal library, and was almost certainly created by him.

Hopefully we get to see how Young Thor cast the spell.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Agree to disagree.

Although I don't understand how you think Odin and Rune King Thor replicating a simple enchantment is even remotely as silly as arguing that Odin doesn't know how to cast a spell that he's aware of, in his own library, and was almost certainly created by him.

I find both incredibly silly. 🙂

But yes, asking for validity of the claims is silly.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, considering neither were shown on panel...

I find both incredibly silly. 🙂

But yes, asking for validity of the claims is silly.

What, the actual spell? Out of curiosity, what exactly do you expect was done? Some large ritual with exotic ingredients?

The only requirement pointed out was the blood of Odin (Which in itself was just a safety lock) and we know it had to be extremely simple as it was cast by young Thor.