Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSomething that won't be accomplished in battle.
What, the actual spell? Out of curiosity, what exactly do you expect was done? Some large ritual with exotic ingredients?The only requirement pointed out was the blood of Odin (Which in itself was just a safety lock) and we know it had to be extremely simple as it was cast by young Thor.
Although my mind is wide open to be changed as soon as someone can prove how easy it would be to do mid battle.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't see him above any Concept.
It still doesn't mater, cause the MoD was a physical being.
So, you can't physically burn time (Eternity) or empty space (Infinity)
unless they take physical forms. (M-body)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zopzop's nonsense aside, how is this supposed to counter Thor using the Celestial killing enchantment?Young Thor already knows the enchantment and used it. Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins.
There's no logical reason to stop Odin, and especially Thor from using this enchantment to run a train on the Celestials now that the war with them is over with.
RKT is supposed to be every bit as wise as Odin, if not more so. Ad 2 and 2 and you get four.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, there's no way that Thor can tank attacks from Celestials as Rune King Thor. It's not as if classic Thor got back up from Celestial attacks.Or in the case, of Mad Celestials, the Fantastic Four.
Yup, no chance at all of him mounting an offense either. After all, Rune King Thor is no Human Torch (With a Cosmic Rod).
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).
And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.
My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.
Also, lawl at using Thor withstanding the Fourth host's barrage of attacks for RKT. Unless you think that regular Thor has higher durability than Odin, that's not applicable here. Especially since the Mad Celestials demonstrated the ability to rock beings like Galactus and Adult Franklin with their blasts, nearly killed that Starbrand-Reed with a stray blast, and were implied to have destroyed entire universes during their hunt for the remaining Reeds of the Council.
The blasts the MC used against F4 was very far from they full power.
They fighted against Franklin Richards, who had power in a universal scale even in kid version (he created a universe). The MC overpowered a universal reality warper with power.
Unless you guys believe adult franklin and the thing are close in durability...
Originally posted by Epicurus
The Mad Celestials intention was never to destroy the F4. It was only to kill the Reed Richards of that universe(before destroying the rest of the universe as well) upto that point. The innumerable times when they ask characters standing in their way to simply move aside instead of disintegrating them or teleporting them away is proof of that ala Doom and Sue.Also, lawl at using Thor withstanding the Fourth host's barrage of attacks for RKT. Unless you think that regular Thor has higher durability than Odin, that's not applicable here. Especially since the Mad Celestials demonstrated the ability to rock beings like Galactus and Adult Franklin with their blasts, nearly killed that Starbrand-Reed with a stray blast, and were implied to have destroyed entire universes during their hunt for the remaining Reeds of the Council.
?
I'm not even arguing for RKT here. I was just acknowledging that yes, regular Thor does have the feat of showing him enduring the Celestials' attacks as zop pointed out. Doesn't mean RKT beats them. I certainly don't think he stands a chance here outside of somehow getting prep time to obtain the axe or performing said enchantment on another weapon.
And even then, that's sketchy considering it would be out of character, imo.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
?I'm not even arguing for RKT here. I was just acknowledging that yes, regular Thor does have the feat of showing him enduring the Celestials' attacks as zop pointed out. Doesn't mean RKT beats them.
Originally posted by Epicurus
They're not really applicable here though. It's one of those extreme outliers, like Superman continually benchpressing Earth's weight for 5 days straight without any exposure to sunlight and without any rest between; good stuff to put up in Respect threads and to argue which herald has the best outliers, but outside of that, not much use in a forum fight.
Also true. It happened and it's canon, but it's not something I would bring up in the first place outside of trying to get into a pissing contest or a feat war.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Then explain why Odin didn't use it to fight the Fourth Host? Oh wait, you already did in the second para with this:
" Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins. "RKT is supposed to be every bit as wise as Odin, if not more so. Ad 2 and 2 and you get four.
Good thing he isn't Adult Franklin or 4-planet-amped Galactus either. Both of whom were either flash-ko'd or outright KO'd once the MCs got serious about hurting their opponents.
Apparently you have the inability to read entire posts. Don't worry, I'm sure it's an affliction that can be cured with perseverance and hard work. Odin's hesitance over using the enchantment does NOT apply in this thread. These are rogue mad Celestials from an alternate Universe that cannot be reasoned with and he has no peace treaty with.
That's excellent logic. Seeing as how Young Thor easily cast the enchantment, it makes sense that Rune King Thor can effortlessly cast it, therefore owning the Celestials like Quan in a staring contest. Add two plus two, and you get four.
Scans of the Mad Celestials holding back? How many mental blocks did they drop when they got angry? But on a more serious note, they were merged when they did that, no?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Apparently you have the inability to read entire posts. Don't worry, I'm sure it's an affliction that can be cured with perseverance and hard work. Odin's hesitance over using the enchantment do NOT apply in this thread. These are rogue mad Celestials from an alternate Universe that cannot be reasoned with and he has no peace treaty with.That's excellent logic. Seeing as how Young Thor easily cast the enchantment, it makes sense that Rune King Thor can effortlessly cast it, therefore owning the Celestials like Quan in a staring contest. Add two plus two, and you get four.
Scans of the Mad Celestials holding back? How many mental blocks did they drop when they got angry? But on a more serious note, they were merged when they did that, no?
Yeah, only problem with that is Young Thor lacks the abundant wisdom of RKT, who's arguably wiser than Odin himself, who himself was wise enough to avoid using that enchantment against the Fourth Host.
Already provided the instances when they warn both Doom and Sue to get out of the way, and when the latter refuse to do so, they simply blast them out of the way. Beyond that, I'd recommend reading FF#14 and Fantastic Four#603 to clarify your doubts. When they got serious about hurting people, they were able to drop kid Franklin to the ground with a single blast, rocked both Adult Franklin and revived Galactus with single blasts, and nearly killed the 4-planet-amped Galactus in their merged state.
Originally posted by Epicurus
No, just an inability to stand people asking questions they themselves answer in the very same instance. Does it matter that they're from an alternate reality? Especially when it was recently confirmed that all Celestials across the multiverse are aspects of each other and are linked? In essence therefore, his treaty with 616-Celestials extends to these Celestials as well.Yeah, only problem with that is Young Thor lacks the abundant wisdom of RKT, who's arguably wiser than Odin himself, who himself was wise enough to avoid using that enchantment against the Fourth Host.
Already provided the instances when they warn both Doom and Sue to get out of the way, and when the latter refuse to do so, they simply blast them out of the way. Beyond that, I'd recommend reading FF#14 and Fantastic Four#603 to clarify your doubts. When they got serious about hurting people, they were able to drop kid Franklin to the ground with a single blast, rocked both Adult Franklin and revived Galactus with single blasts, and nearly killed the 4-planet-amped Galactus in their merged state.
I pointed out why Odin was against using the enchantment. I also explained why that no longer applies. Of course it matters, I just explained WHY it matters, smh.These are rogue Celestials that he does not have a peace treaty with that are representative of their entire race. He did not want to interfere with Apocalypse because he was an emissary of the Celestial Races. Not to mention the Celestial War has come and gone so Odin has no duty to uphold their agreement or anything. Some desperate attempt at a weird extra-dimensional connection with other Celesitals does not change these facts in the slightest. These Celestials are a completely separate and alternate faction with their own agenda.
Why are you mentioning the Fourth Host? They are NOT fighting the Fourth Host here. And the war with the Celestials came and went long ago. What about these factors do you not understand?
In the same comic you're referencing, we saw them attack the Fantastic Four with no more mercy then Franklin and Galactus. If you want to argue that this is one of those rare comic inconsistencies, sure but that's a whole different animal.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I pointed out why Odin was against using the enchantment. I also explained why that no longer applies. Of course it matters, I just explained WHY it matters, smh.These are rogue Celestials that he does not have a peace treaty with that are representative of their entire race. He did not want to interfere with Apocalypse because he was an emissary of the Celestial Races. Not to mention the Celestial War has come and gone so Odin has no duty to uphold their agreement or anything. Some desperate attempt at a weird extra-dimensional connection with other Celesitals does not change these facts in the slightest. These Celestials are a completely separate and alternate faction with their own agenda.Why are you mentioning the Fourth Host? They are NOT fighting the Fourth Host here. And the war with the Celestials came and went long ago. What about these factors do you not understand?
Scans of them holding back against Fantastic Four? If you want to argue that this is one of those rare comic inconsistencies, sure but that's a whole different animal.
Because Odin went to war with the Fourth Host. Because if he was that desperate to kill them and win, he would've used this hex to enchant every weapon of Asagrd and defeat their entire race handily. But he didn't. Because this is a special form of counterattack reserved for the Celestial Executioner. And because Odin not using it against one hostile group of Celestials proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he won't use it against another hostile group of Celestials either. Same goes for RKT, who is every bit as wise as Odin, if not wiser still.
I provided you with the issue numbers. Read the comic(s) on your own. They wanted to kill Richards before carrying out their overall plan of destroying the rest of the world/universe, and prior to killing Richards, they didn't bother attempting to kill anyone else. Not even when Valeria first breached the portal to the Bridge and discovered the Council of Reeds.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Your explanation regarding them being alternates and the treaty not applying to them was rebuffed though. Do you read your own scans? In it, it is very specifically mentioned that the enchantment is a safeguard only to be used if the Celestial Executioner(aka Exitar) arrives. That's the only reason why the enchantment exists. Not because of Odin's treaty with the Celestials. It absolutely does, since their multiversality was pretty much the focal point of the entire event of Extermination.Because Odin went to war with the Fourth Host. Because if he was that desperate to kill them and win, he would've used this hex to enchant every weapon of Asagrd and defeat their entire race handily. But he didn't. Because this is a special form of counterattack reserved for the Celestial Executioner. And because Odin not using it against one hostile group of Celestials proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he won't use it against another hostile group of Celestials either. Same goes for RKT, who is every bit as wise as Odin, if not wiser still.
I provided you with the issue numbers. Read the comic(s) on your own. They wanted to kill Richards before carrying out their overall plan of destroying the rest of the world/universe, and prior to killing Richards, they didn't bother attempting to kill anyone else. Not even when Valeria first breached the portal to the Bridge and discovered the Council of Reeds.
This is going in circles. Agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is going in circles. Agree to disagree.
That scan has a lot of iffiness about it. It's Kang calling an enchantment "simple", not the same thing as Thor or even RKT finding it simple.
The _safeguard_ isn't the Odin's blood thing (which just seems to mean, any descendant of Odin), but the weapon itself. Thus reinforcing the idea that it can seriously harm The Celestials.
Still, all this weapon does is pierce their "armour", which really isn't saying that much.
We know they exist beyond simple physical form and that they can reconstitute on a whim, so why would this weapon hand any the fight to RKT, even if he were allowed to summon it.
Also, The Celestials, like Galactus, always vary the strength of their attacks depending upon the seriousness of the threat facing them.
Galactus never one-shot killed Hulk, Surfer or any herald, yet he one-shot wiped out 3 star systems and annihilated a Watcher as a by-product, when he got serious.
The Mad Celestials, individually were not as powerful as Galactus, but in combination they clearly surpassed a well fed Galactus.
Originally posted by janus77
That scan has a lot of iffiness about it. It's Kang calling an enchantment "simple", not the same thing as Thor or even RKT finding it simple.The _safeguard_ isn't the Odin's blood thing (which just seems to mean, any descendant of Odin), but the weapon itself. Thus reinforcing the idea that it can seriously harm The Celestials.
Still, all this weapon does is pierce their "armour", which really isn't saying that much.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Uriel killed the Arishem-lookalike Celestial Gardener with that axe. 😐
I think this is all part of Pak's fiendish plan to get all you Hulk haters on board.
He left so that tHickman and Co could finish the job of ruining the Marvel cosmos that he started, whilst he kept DC's flying gimmick from doing anything fancy or interesting.
Then, Waid builds up this time punching force that Hulk has, first using a piece of chromal metal, but then through sheer force.
Finally Pak returns, Hulk gets pissed off at the very idea of Odin being able to threaten a cosmic and so Pak has Hulk throw the retcon punch. And all of KMC's 4-5 non-Thorbags, leap in joy and cheer and laugh through tear streaming eyes.
It's happening in '14. The Hulk Marvel Retcon Punch. Turning Marvel Now! into Marvel Wow!
Originally posted by janus77
Ah, I was commenting on the exposition in the scan previously posted up.
Originally posted by Epicurus
It's probably attributable to Remender's wiki/handbook-level knowledge of the characters he writes about. He clearly never read Thor#300 or any of the preceding issues(like Tom Brevoort), because the time period when we see the axe getting enchanted, is roughly around the time after Odin made his initial pact with the Celestials and before the Destroyer/Uni-Mind battle, but Thor is still unworthy of Mjolnir which is inconsistent with his depiction back in the day. Plus, I saw a couple people on cbr who were noting how the enchantment's purpose was to only "pierce" Celestial armor, but somehow it got upscaled from that to being able to outright kill Celestials. They also made a note of Remender ignoring the self-repair abilities of Celetial armor in general, along with how it failed to kill Celestial-powered Apocalypse; which led them to state that he should improve the way he describes particular scenes and plot elements in a comic. Back then, I agreed with their assessment.I am guessing that Remender won't be bringing another Celestial directly on-panel as he did in Uncanny#7. Probably due to the fan-criticism of the way he wrote that particular scene.
Another inconsistency to highlight: Sentry is able to disorient Thor by flying him at ftl speeds, even though in the Gorr arc which was running concurrently at that time, Thor was able to easily cross lightyears within moments without any discomfort at all.
Apart from these minor detail-based inconsistencies, his work on Uncanny has been quite an enjoyable read so far.
@Rage: Just noticed this edit:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In the same comic you're referencing, we saw them attack the Fantastic Four with no more mercy then Franklin and Galactus.