Originally posted by ares834
Um, so? Once again, every time we've seen a dragon slain it is not a one-on-one battle.facepalm
Not once is it mentioned that maiar have precog.
Uh, no they didn't... The armies of Orcs and Balrogs were destroyed by the time the winged dragons emerged.
lol, what? Where is this stated? Post the passage please.
Sauron was Morogth's second in command...
"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void."
"But it was said afterwards among the Eldar that when Men awoke in Hildurien at the rising of the Sun the spies of Morgoth were watchful, and tidings were soon brought to him; and this seemed to him so great a matter that secretly under shadow he himself departed from Angband, and went forth into Middle-earth, leaving to Sauron the command of the War."
"There dwelt Thu (Sauron) the chief servant of Morgoth, a sorcerer of dreadful power, the lord of wolves."
Also, unlike Gothmog, Sauron actually defeated notable elves by himself. He captured Finrod on his own and killed both Elendil and Gil-Galad at the same time.
Meanwhile, Gothmog had help from other Balrogs against Feanor and Fingon and was killed when he challenged Ecthelion on his lonesome.
Gothmog never was in charge of Glaurung. In fact Glaurung also led Balrogs.
"In the front of that fire came Glaurung the golden, father of dragons, in his full might; and in his train were Balrogs, and behind them came the black armies of the Orcs in multitudes such as the Noldor had never before seen or imagined."
Also some other quotes I found in HoME:
"Maidros and the sons of Fëanor wrought great slaughter on Orc and Balrog and traitor Man that day, but the dragon they did not slay and the fire of his breath was the death of many."
"The number of a thousand Balrogs who came from Angband when 'Hell was emptied' shows once again (see II. 212 - 13 and p. 207), and more clearly than ever, that Morgoth's demons of fire were not conceived as rare or peculiarly terrible - unlike the Dragon."
Now, perhaps the 'last minute' change to Balrogs where Tolkien limited their number to between 3 and 7 would be greater than the great dragons. But unfortunately, Tolkien never wrote any first age stuff with these less numerous Balrogs. As such, an argument between these hypothetical Balrogs and Dragons is useless.
No matter how you figure it.. Balrogs have a higher origin than Dragons do.. They are either part of Melkor or maia corrupted by Melkor... in either case.. above a dragon.
However, now it seems the argument has switched to Sauron vs. Gothmog... so let's examine that since that is harder to determine. Gothmog being above a dragon isn't.
Please reference me where Sauron killed the people you mention... I don't remember it being that way at all nor the cirucmstances behind him "killing" these elves. Further, even the onces you mention aren't even in the same league as Feanor.. fingon and ecth.. all above ANYBODY Sauron has beaten.
Shit, let's look at how both died.. one died by one of the best Elven Lords in history by his kamikazi move as he was certain to die.. Shall we even discuss how Sauron has been defeated? Suffice to say.. it was by much much less as you very well know.
You say Sauron was second to Morgoth.. problem is.. that was just politically. Gothmog had his SAME rank but was also named High Captain... something of which Suaron wasn't. It was Gothmog LEADING the forces and commanding them into battle nto Sauron. Shit, Sauson was never in charge of anything or leading anything while Gothmog was around.
Shall we examine all the battles Sauron lead Morgoths forces and how many times Gothmog has...Oooohhh wait... that might be tough for you.. I'll start it off with a few and let's see what you have... Gothmog lead the forces at Dagor-nuin-Giliath... Nirnaeth Arnoediad.... Fall of Gondolin,. battle of unumbered tears... Now please list for me the battles that Sauron led when Gothmog was around.. You won't find them.. wanna know why? Cause Gothmog was the high captain.. he was the general in charge... So here is what we are left with...
Gothmog has superior battle feats and victories... The best slayings of Gothmog top the best of Sauron.
We have gothmog beaten by the better more powerful person.. this isn't even close. Even still, when Gothmog got killed he also killed the High Elven Lord... can't say the same for Suaron.
Then we say who was in charge of leading morgoths forces in attack or defense of Melkor.. Again the answer is Gothmog not Sauron... he is never put in that position because he's not the warrior Gothmog is. This is illustrated any number of ways that slap you right in the face. Sauron was the politician.. Gothmog the general. of battle. No way around that fact. Now I'll wait for your listing of battles and the references to when sauron killed these guys.