Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, unicorns don't dance in the spring time?Nothingness cannot be imagined because nothingness does not exist. The word nothingness is only a handle. Did I say this already? I feel like I am repeating myself.
Now, what is your point?
Nothingness is the opposite of something.
Nothingness is actually a "something", the absence of something.
For example, the cookie jar has "nothing" in it.
In this illustration nothing is a preexistent concept, idea, thing, or material that already exists in some form.
So you are not off of the hook.
The point is that we are only able to think of things that exist in some form.
It is impossible to think of something that does not already exist in some form.
All ideas or thoughts originate from somewhere.
The idea of an All-powerful Being Who is holy, righteous, just, and greater than humanity, and Who is the Creator of all things, came from an intelligent, rational, logical, Mind.
That Mind is the Mind of God.
I believe that God planted the knowledge of Himself in everyone.
We can reject that knowledge or accept it.
The choice is ours.
That's why people on every continent worship things they believe are greater than themselves the world over.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nothingness is the opposite of something.
Nothingness is NOT the opposite of something. Nothingness does not exist therefore there is no opposite.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nothingness is actually a "something", the absence of something.
Only the word nothingness is something.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
For example, the cookie jar has "nothing" in it.
The cookie jar is filled with air if there is nothing in it. Nothingness cannot be found inside of a jar.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In this illustration nothing is a preexistent concept, idea, thing, or material that already exists in some form.
If nothingness was a “preexistent concept, idea, thing, or material that already exists in some form”, then it isn’t nothingness.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So you are not off of the hook.
Would you like for me to tell you about Buddhahood?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The point is that we are only able to think of things that exist in some form.
Thought exists. So, every thought we have is real. Even though the things we are thinking about, like unicorns dancing in the spring time, are not real.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is impossible to think of something that does not already exist in some form.
You are repeating yourself.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
All ideas or thoughts originate from somewhere.
The human brain!
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The idea of an All-powerful Being Who is holy, righteous, just, and greater than humanity, and Who is the Creator of all things, came from an intelligent, rational, logical, Mind.
Humans came up with that idea all by themselves. And the human mind is not always intelligent, rational, and logical. But I’m glad you think so highly of the human mind.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That Mind is the Mind of God.
Why would God have a mind? That is a personification, and personifications are never to be taken literally.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I believe that God planted the knowledge of Himself in everyone.
And I believe that unicorns dance in the spring time.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
We can reject that knowledge or accept it.
I can also be indifferent. It is an option.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The choice is ours.
lol
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's why people on every continent worship things they believe are greater than themselves the world over.
That is not why people worship. People worship to have community; to have a common belief, and to not be alone. No one thinks about nothingness or word games. They just want something to believe that is the same as everyone else. Most people really don’t care about the religion they are in; they just want the social benefits.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothingness is NOT the opposite of something. Nothingness does not exist therefore there is no opposite.Only the word nothingness is something.
The cookie jar is filled with air if there is nothing in it. Nothingness cannot be found inside of a jar.
If nothingness was a “preexistent concept, idea, thing, or material that already exists in some form”, then it isn’t nothingness.
Would you like for me to tell you about Buddhahood?
Thought exists. So, every thought we have is real. Even though the things we are thinking about, like unicorns dancing in the spring time, are not real.
You are repeating yourself.
The human brain!
Humans came up with that idea all by themselves. And the human mind is not always intelligent, rational, and logical. But I’m glad you think so highly of the human mind.
Why would God have a mind? That is a personification, and personifications are never to be taken literally.
And I believe that unicorns dance in the spring time.
I can also be indifferent. It is an option.
lol
That is not why people worship. People worship to have community; to have a common belief, and to not be alone. No one thinks about nothingness or word games. They just want something to believe that is the same as everyone else. Most people really don’t care about the religion they are in; they just want the social benefits.
Nothingness is defined in your mind as a "something" that has quantifiable value.
That quantifiable value happens to be nothing, as opposed to something.
However, you are still able to conceive of nothingness.
Nothingness is a preexistent concept, thought, or idea that existed in your mind before this conversation; therefore, you have failed to think of something that does not exist in some preexistent form.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nothingness is defined in your mind as a "something" that has quantifiable value.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That quantifiable value happens to be nothing, as opposed to something.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
However, you are still able to conceive of nothingness.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Nothingness is a preexistent concept, thought, or idea that existed in your mind before this conversation; therefore, you have failed to think of something that does not exist in some preexistent form.
I told you that was impossible. You go walk on the sun first.
Two points I would like to mention:
1. It is a popular idea that the universe emerged from nothingness at the point of the big bang. However, I do not believe this. I believe that the universe came into existence from the multi-verse or another universe. One possible idea is Cosmological Natural Selection.
2. Buddhahood is not a God. It is the highest of the ten worlds. In my search to find a way to communicate with Christians, I try to find parallels between Buddhism and Christianity. The idea of God is almost equal to Buddhahood. However, Buddhahood is superior to the idea of God. The reason I say this is because God lives in Heaven, and Heaven is a lower world then Buddhahood.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
JIA can't answer anything that requires something other than regurgitating things he learned in Bible camp. His inability to reason borders on unintentional trolling.
But when you do something negative towards him, like telling him what a jerk he is, then it only reinforces his internal need to be persecuted for his beliefs. He take that as evidence for his beliefs being correct. It is the martyr complex.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I've noticed that he ignores my hard hitting questions to focus on semantic tiffs with you, so that's the best concession I can ever hope to get from him.Sometimes I wish he would stop posting in blue though; it's so hard to read on this skin.
I don't understand the blue text, but I don't understand a lot of things, like rap music. I always get rid of it when breaking up his posts for scrutiny.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
JIA you never answered this question.
The reason is paradoxical.
You already admitted that it is impossible to think of something that doesn't exist.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know why you bring competition into this.It is a fact that no one can think of something that does not exist. It is self evident.
The reason people are able to imagine God is because He exists, because if He didn't the thought could not have ever formed in their minds.
Moreover, (I believe that) the human experience is such that God has only endowed us with the capacity/ability to conceive things that are predicated on things that already exist in some form--either via thought, idea, concept, or materiality.
That's why I presented you with the challenge of trying think of something that does not exist, the only condition was that you cannot use (i.e. in your mind) any preexistent idea, concept, thought, or material.
Folks, God exists!
We agreed that the word nothingness would represent nothing. We could also use the number 0.
Then the number one is the number of elements in the set containing only the null set, i.e. "{[color=red]{}}[/color]".
Now, to construct additional numbers we merely construct an inclusive set of the "successor" U all preexisting sets. A successor is a set containing the previous set. Thus, one is the successor to zero because "{[color=red]{}}[/color]" contains "{}". But two is the successor to one because it contains one, as well as all previous sets (zero): "{{},{[color=red]{}}[/color]}."
Now, we can easily conceive of any number of successors, and so it is procedurally simple to reproduce infinity. However, there is a difference in kind between all of the numbers greater than zero and all of the numbers equal to or less than zero. Specifically, one is a set with elements which are sets, and zero is a set with no elements.
To be perfectly honest, I've yet to read the section on negative numbers so that issue will probably get sorted out later.
But the important thing is this difference in kind between Natural numbers (i.e. integers greater than zero) and other numbers, (zero and below).
It is an outgrowth of this distinction, I argue, from which JIA's insistence that we cannot conceive of nonbeing stems. But his objection simply isn't true. I can easily think of a set with no elements, and let the contents of that set be my concept of non-existence. Or, even better, I can consider an n-space and then assign n equal to zero. (Note: this derivation is rather less formal than Russell's.)
My point, guys, is that this philosophical problem is not a conundrum, but rather a failure of imagination. There are people who have discovered, quite rigorously, how to conceive of non-being using only self-evident axioms. Math is cool.
(Edit: JIA, this concept of pre-existing forms in the mind which provide the library of all possible thoughts is rather medieval, and has thoroughly fallen out of favor amongst current epistemology. I'd encourage you to investigate the problems that Descartes encountered in trying to defeat his devil, if you want to see the Truth.
I believe that the relevant segment is book (meditation) 4, but you'll have to have explicate the entirety of his failure's root in order to succeed in his stead. Good luck!)
Spoiler:
My epistemology professor would gut me alive if he saw this. Metaphysics is not at all my forte, so feel free to factcheck these things before you re-use them in your own arguments, Everybody. Sources: Bertrand Russell's introduction to the Principia, and a poorly remembered account of Descarte's books 1-3.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The reason is paradoxical.
Is there something special about paradoxes? Actually, a paradox is a tool that gives you an indication that something is wrong with your idea.
Also, the opposite of nothing is NOT something. Nothingness can be expressed in math. Nothingness = 0. The inverse of 0 is 0; therefore, the opposite of nothingness is nothingness.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You already admitted that it is impossible to think of something that doesn't exist.
Admitted? It is self-evident.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The reason people are able to imagine God is because He exists, because if He didn't the thought could not have ever formed in their minds.
So, everything we imagine is real? Dancing unicorns are real?
Now, answer this question.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
…Now, why do you believe that the original idea of God is impossible for humans to come up with on their own?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Moreover, (I believe that) the human experience is such that God has only endowed us with the capacity/ability to conceive things that are predicated on things that already exist in some form--either via thought, idea, concept, or materiality.
So, the god of the bible does not tell us the truth. Why would a god lie to us?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's why I presented you with the challenge of trying think of something that does not exist, the only condition was that you cannot use (i.e. in your mind) any preexistent idea, concept, thought, or material.
You asked me to think about something that cannot exist, and the rest didn’t matter, so I ignored it. Nothingness is not something you can imagine. It doesn’t matter what constraints you put on the conversation, the door is closed. You can’t use nothingness as evidence of something, because your evidence doesn’t exist. It is very possible, and is most likely the case, that humans made up the idea of a GOD all by themselves.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Folks, God exists!