Originally posted by Nibedicus
Seeing as both characters have had multiple writers as well as multiple incarnations, wouldn't different writers have different intentions for each of the different incarnacions?Me confoosed now...
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk getting strong enough to beat Hunter Prey Doomsday is unlikely in the average portrayal but not impossible possible. After all, even non-Green Scar Hulk's have reached levels of strength I'd consider on par or above Hunter Prey's. The problem with these "writer intent" discussions is that they lead to no limit fallacies often and are very subjective. Even more so then usual comic book debates.Anyways, if these two were to crossover, it'd probably go like the original Abomination fight. Hulk gets beat to death or something, Doomsday threatens Betty or pushes Banner, and Hulk gives him a rectal exam with his foot.
I guess, when it comes down to it, Hulk being the strongest one there is more true then Doomsday being unbeatable through evolution. To me anyways.
When Superman was asked by Ultra-Sphinx
"What happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object."
He replied, "They surrender"
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Writer's intent is that Hulk is the strongest being ever. Stronger than Galactus, stronger than Beyonder.I don't understand how this is even a discussion. Hulk is the strongest being ever in writer's intent. Evolving doesn't come close.
Which is why writer's intent is sometimes a load of shit.
Sometimes superior force does not always win..Look at superman, he gets owned by many lesser strength beings.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftI don't think "Hulk is the strongest one there is" is writer's intent.
Writer's intent is that Hulk is the strongest being ever. Stronger than Galactus, stronger than Beyonder.I don't understand how this is even a discussion. Hulk is the strongest being ever in writer's intent. Evolving doesn't come close.
Which is why writer's intent is sometimes a load of shit.
"Is" is present tense while Hulk theoretically could be the strongest one there is (which is future tense). What's theoretical isn't always practical.
Now it's writer's intent that Hulk theoretically be the strongest there is. But Hulk would never achieve this potential for many reasons. Writers know this. That's why Hulk got his ass beat so many times.
Originally posted by -Pr-Why don't they count? The OP.says "based on writers intent and feats".
There seems to be some misunderstanding about what "writer intent" actually means for a lot of people.It isn't who the strongest is. It isn't who the most powerful is. It isn't who is the smartest, or most skilled.
It's WRITER INTENT. IE, what role the character has in the story.
If people aren't gonna get that in to their heads, then you guys seriously need to get over yourselves.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Why don't they count? The OP.says "based on writers intent and feats".
Because both conflict with each other.
If Doomsday had been made in Marvel to fight the Hulk, then it wouldn't have mattered how strong Hulk got. It wouldn't matter how powerful he got.
Why?
Because the ENTIRE POINT of the Doomsday character is that he's a foil for a particular hero. He's the hero killer. If Doomsday had been created to fight the Hulk, the Hulk would be dead. Same goes for any other character.
You can't argue writer intent when you're going to blatantly ignore things like PIS.
Rabid Hulk "fans" aren't arguing writer intent. So this thread is getting to the point where it will just be closed.
Originally posted by jaxthejester
So this Thread is being closed unless folks agree that Doomsday wins the debate regarding writer intent of power-set?That doesn't seem right... 😕
(The Voting Poll has Hulk up 10%. That's hardly just rabid Hulk fans.)
No. This thread will be closed if people don't start arguing writer intent properly, which they aren't doing.
Doomsday is a haxx character. Always has been. But that's not even the point.
Unless people actually take the thread seriously instead of letting their bias fuel some really bad arguments, then I have zero reason to leave it open.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Writer's intent is that Hulk is the strongest being ever. Stronger than Galactus, stronger than Beyonder.I don't understand how this is even a discussion. Hulk is the strongest being ever in writer's intent. Evolving doesn't come close.
Which is why writer's intent is sometimes a load of shit.
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I don't even like Hulk.
But the writer intent behind his powers is just that, he's the strongest one there is. That's the whole intent behind his character, behind his powers, behind everything.
It's basically acknowledging that everything Carver thinks is true, if we're solely focusing on that and select feats. It's basically like the intent behind God's power. He's supposed to have infinite strength and be the strongest one there is. It's utterly retarded, but it is what it is. The only way writer's intent makes any character near that is if they are intended to be omnipotent (or something along those lines), or just infinity plus one in strength and are a direct counter to Hulk.
Yes the intent behind Doomsday is that he just adapts to shit, but on the level of infinite? Meh.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't even like Hulk.But the writer intent behind his powers is just that, he's the strongest one there is. That's the whole intent behind his character, behind his powers, behind everything.
It's basically acknowledging that everything Carver thinks is true, if we're solely focusing on that and select feats. It's basically like the intent behind God's power. He's supposed to have infinite strength and be the strongest one there is. It's utterly retarded, but it is what it is. The only way writer's intent makes any character near that is if they are intended to be omnipotent (or something along those lines), or just infinity plus one in strength and are a direct counter to Hulk.
Yes the intent behind Doomsday is that he just adapts to shit, but on the level of infinite? Meh.
Pretty much this. Under writer intent, Hulk's strength is a literal plot device. He just gets pissed off and is able to achieve whatever task he needs to. And it extends to toughness, healing, and all that other crap.
That bit about Carv is frighteningly accurate.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't even like Hulk.But the writer intent behind his powers is just that, he's the strongest one there is. That's the whole intent behind his character, behind his powers, behind everything.
It's basically acknowledging that everything Carver thinks is true, if we're solely focusing on that and select feats. It's basically like the intent behind God's power. He's supposed to have infinite strength and be the strongest one there is. It's utterly retarded, but it is what it is. The only way writer's intent makes any character near that is if they are intended to be omnipotent (or something along those lines), or just infinity plus one in strength and are a direct counter to Hulk.
Yes the intent behind Doomsday is that he just adapts to shit, but on the level of infinite? Meh.
Agreed with everything except for the Doomsday part.
The entire intent behind the character, imo, is that he's there to kill Superman. It doesn't matter how strong, how fast, or how durable Superman is, Doomsday is too powerful for him. It weakens Doomsday as a standalone character, sure, but it still makes him every bit as ****ing Shao Kahn cheap as he is.
And yeah, that bit about Carver is terrifying.
Originally posted by -Pr-I agree, I simplified it, but the basic premise holds true.
Agreed with everything except for the Doomsday part.The entire intent behind the character, imo, is that he's there to kill Superman. It doesn't matter how strong, how fast, or how durable Superman is, Doomsday is too powerful for him. It weakens Doomsday as a standalone character, sure, but it still makes him every bit as ****ing Shao Kahn cheap as he is.
And yeah, that bit about Carver is terrifying.
Doomsday's intent is to adapt at a high level, but the intent was never for infinity. He was basically intended to be the antithesis to the greatest hero ever. To kill him. To be the ultimate danger for him, etc. And then his adaption was intended to take on the threats he faced, but it wasn't meant to be a counter for all the strength ever. And Doomsday would have to deal with that specifically in a battle built upon the thought processes of thousands of Hulk fangirls' wet dreams. All the hyperbole used in Hulk threads? There's the character.
Simply put, arguing characters not "Gods" in their respective specialties will have them losing to Hulk in writers intent battles. It'd be like putting Superman in fights with the writer's intent being Greatest Heroes Ever against anyone. It's just not happening.
Flash is the fastest being ever. Superman is the greatest hero ever. Wolverine is the best at what he does, and Hulk is the strongest one there is. That's just how it is. You have to get into specific "counter" characters to go against those except for Hulk I guess.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I agree, I simplified it, but the basic premise holds true.Doomsday's intent is to adapt at a high level, but the intent was never for infinity. He was basically intended to be the antithesis to the greatest hero ever. To kill him. To be the ultimate danger for him, etc. And then his adaption was intended to take on the threats he faced, but it wasn't meant to be a counter for all the strength ever. And Doomsday would have to deal with that specifically in a battle built upon the thought processes of thousands of Hulk fangirls' wet dreams. All the hyperbole used in Hulk threads? There's the character.
Simply put, arguing characters not "Gods" in their respective specialties will have them losing to Hulk in writers intent battles. It'd be like putting Superman in fights with the writer's intent being Greatest Heroes Ever against anyone. It's just not happening.
Flash is the fastest being ever. Superman is the greatest hero ever. Wolverine is the best at what he does, and Hulk is the strongest one there is. That's just how it is. You have to get into specific "counter" characters to go against those except for Hulk I guess.
No, I get that. I actually agree with you.
My point is that were Doomsday to be written for the Hulk rather than Superman, Hulk's infinite strength wouldn't matter in the end, because the entire point of a character like Doomsday is to be a John Cena-esque "overcome the odds and win" shtick, regardless of what's put in front of him.
Originally posted by -Pr-
No, I get that. I actually agree with you.My point is that were Doomsday to be written for the Hulk rather than Superman, Hulk's infinite strength wouldn't matter in the end, because the entire point of a character like Doomsday is to be a John Cena-esque "overcome the odds and win" shtick, regardless of what's put in front of him.
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Although saying that, Doomsday would NOT be Doomsday anymore i.e. he would have a different powerset. He'd be given the kind of adapt on the fly evolution h1a8 could only dream about, which is to say instantaneous, like a Darwin or Nemesis Kid. And against Hulk, that would be....another Hulk. But with a faster dynamic strength level.