Writer's Intent: Hulk vs Doomsday

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Trying to impose Superman's number one hero factor on Doomsday is illogical. A writer given Superman the win by the virtue of being Superman should not apply to Doomsday.

Tbf, Peter David's reasoning seemed to revolved around Superman's versatility. Doomsday trying to out-brawl the Hulk is an entirely different situation as plays directly to his strength. And Jurgens/David (I think it was them) had an all out (Post-Dos Superman mind you) just barely beat Professor Hulk. So you know, that's probably a more relevant basis for your reasoning.

😬

What? Where did Pak say that Hulk needed to reach World Breaker levels to bust planets? Even at the EARLY stages of World Breaker, Hulk was a danger to the planet with his mere footsteps.

It's one thing to assume Hunter Prey Doomsday would win (On average anyways) but these leaps in logic just undermine your entire argument. Hulk was said to be a planetary threat on his WAY to Planet Hulk fyi.

And for what it's worth, I remember Greg Pak making it clear Hulk would beat Superman during World War Hulk.

this turning into a superman argument is one of the main issues of kmc. it doesn't have to be this way every single time

Originally posted by Brockalizer
That would be relevant if this was a Hulk vs Superman thread, but it isn't. Doomsday lacks the heat vision and maneuverability that both writers stated Superman would need to win. I have yet to see anything that would indicate that Hulk is significantly slower than Doomsday. Try showing a scan of Doomsday "making people look like statues" the way Superman has. You can because it doesn't exist. Someone simply saying that Doomsday is as fast as Flash isn't good enough. There needs to be actual on panel proof of him moving that fast, like covering hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye. Doomsday Wars isn't good enough. That version had Brainiacs mind, there is no way to prove that he was able to take out Flash with speed, rather than simply using intelligence to predict where Flash would be, just like when Deadshot stabbed the Flash. Hulk was smashing the indestructible decades before Doomsday was even conceptualized.

You asked for writer intent and I provided two writers' intents. Sorry its not for your liking.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ditto.

this turning into a superman argument is one of the main issues of kmc. it doesn't have to be this way every single time

DD for average portrayals
Hulk at upper end (like world breaker mode)

But the only Hulk I see possibly beating DD is the one where he can and is willing to go world breaker instantly.

dd. i think the superman discussion is relevant only in the sense that we have a lot more info on hulk/superman than dd/hulk. hulk might be as strong, but he isn't beating a dd who is capable of adapting. not only will he continue to be as strong as hulk, but he'll continue to evolve ways to protect himself from damage while developing other abilities as the battle goes on. his speed alone would be a huge factor in this. hulk evolves healing and strength. dd evolves healing/strength+whatever else he needs. least imo.

Hulk. He's practically a cosmic-force now.

Going by "writer intent", I'd say Hulk is exactly as Marvel bills him, The Strongest One There Is. Period.

He'll make paste out of H/P DD.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I will take the knowledge and the opinion of Peter David over most people when it comes to the Hulk

So the poll will come down to be a popularity contest but for someone like David to give the win to a Pre Dos Superman speaks volumes.

Also Greg Pak believes Darkseid can bust a planet while Hulk needs to reach WB mode to do this, funny thing is that by Pak's own writing in a comic Superman has the physical strength to challenge a world breaker like Darkseid.

And this is based on HIS own depiction of power levels.

DD will win not only because of adaptability, but because he is tougherand has dynamic strength as well. IMO

Lol...Pak said Hulk st his weakest state can destroy a planet.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Pak said Hulk st his weakest state can destroy a planet.

and he portrayed Darkseid casually destroying a planet 😱

So what's your point "Peter David"?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
and he portrayed Darkseid casually destroying a planet 😱

So what's your point "Peter David"?

That you are basing your opinion off of old reviews. I know of 3 writers RECENTLY that said Hulk would kill Superman and one of the writers is doing Superman comics now. Hell, this same writer said nothing short of Galactus can beat WORLD WAR HULK (he didn't even bring up World Breaker). This same writer had Shield saying they never seen a power level like WWH (and remember who shield has in their files). This same writer had RED RICHARDS saying he had never seen a power level like Hulk. You honestly don't want to go with writers intent against the Hulk bro. Writers intent had Pak saying WBH could destroy a Galaxy with a punch. Writer intent stated that Hulk is stronger than the same Hyperion that held back two universes. Writers intent even during planet Hulk time had people and Hulk stating that he could annihilate a planet with ease.

By the way, Darkseid off panel (don't even know how he destroyed it) doesn't compare to WBH, not even close. Lets not go there though because Darkseid isnt in this thread. By the way, I'm not screaming at you.. capitalizing the most important parts.

Originally posted by carver9
That you are basing your opinion off of old reviews. I know of 3 writers RECENTLY that said Hulk would kill Superman and one of the writers is doing Superman comics now. Hell, this same writer said nothing short of Galactus can beat WORLD WAR HULK (he didn't even bring up World Breaker). This same writer had Shield saying they never seen a power level like WWH (and remember who shield has in their files). This same writer had RED RICHARDS saying he had never seen a power level like Hulk. You honestly don't want to go with writers intent against the Hulk bro. Writers intent had Pak saying WBH could destroy a Galaxy with a punch. Writer intent stated that Hulk is stronger than the same Hyperion that held back two universes. Writers intent even during planet Hulk time had people and Hulk stating that he could annihilate a planet with ease.

By the way, Darkseid off panel (don't even know how he destroyed it) doesn't compare to WBH, not even close. Lets not go there though because Darkseid isnt in this thread. By the way, I'm not screaming at you.. capitalizing the most important parts.

I am bringing Darkseid because We are talking about writers and the same writer who portrayed Hulk at his most powerful level is the same writer who has Darkseid CASUALLY destroying planets and saying that Superman is his physical equal, so If you have a beef with that, I will suggest to you to write to Greg Pak and complain with him, not with me.

As for "other writers" and "old reviews" believe me, I think the word of Peter David is better that the word of Scan Daddy. Other writers have stated and shown that Superman will destroy the Hulk, lets take Joe Casey for example, he had the Hulk getting choke by a giant snake, while he portrayed Superman with standing the pressure of the center of the earth and a star. and that is just one example.

Carver actually believes what he says, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Carver actually believes what he says, right?

He has to

Just want to throw out there that you are on ignore ABHI...per Pr request. I have a feeling you are replying to my comment. Let Rao handle this.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I am bringing Darkseid because We are talking about writers and the same writer who portrayed Hulk at his most powerful level is the same writer who has Darkseid CASUALLY destroying planets and saying that Superman is his physical equal, so If you have a beef with that, I will suggest to you to write to Greg Pak and complain with him, not with me.

As for "other writers" and "old reviews" believe me, I think the word of Peter David is better that the word of Scan Daddy. Other writers have stated and shown that Superman will destroy the Hulk, lets take Joe Casey for example, he had the Hulk getting choke by a giant snake, while he portrayed Superman with standing the pressure of the center of the earth and a star. and that is just one example.

Show me that scan of Darkseid destroying that planet physically. I will be waiting.

Also, you just dont get it. Every writer have different opinions on who would win between Hulk and Superman. It's just how it is. One thing I do know is, Pak said Hulk would destroy Superman. Pak said nothing short of Galactus can stop WWH. Pak wrote Hulk lungs withstanding a 100+ Hercs (and yes, one Herc has planetary fts..the guy held Earth on his shoulders...held up the universe). Pak is writing Superman but lets not forget, Pak said Hulk would DESTROY Superman.

Like I've stated before, you using old scans from a Wizard comic (the same source that told us Superman top speed is 2000 mps) has credibility here...yeah right.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jurgens' superman was less than a nuisance to Jurgens' doomsday. So was Superman. This is the same Jurgens who had superman no sell adamantium cutting lasers like nothing BTW.

You asked for writer intent and I provided two writers' intents. Sorry its not for your liking.

Only due to his upbringing so in character that is what limits Superman. His Boy Scout attitude is why he did poorly against Doomsday here. He explains this as well.
Writer intent is clear 95 percent of Superman's power level defeats Doomsday.

DAN JURGENS: I always said that when it came down to a knock-down, drag-out, kick-ass fight, that Superman was always limited by his upbringing. In other words, if you take Superman and his upbringing, his moral code-the "governors" that put him in place to make him the decent human being that he is-and you take someone else who is raised, let’s say on Apokolips, and they are one nasty, mean-ass sonuva . . . even if they only have 95 percent of Superman’s power, they have the advantage in a drag-out fight to the death.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a thread talking about writer intent. I gave the intent of two of the most prominent writers on either hulk or superman. As for how I got that, blame salsa.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=371890&pagenumber=117#post14573041

But yeah, Hulk is no match for superman in a fight. Even PAD agrees to that. In a superman comic? "A few heartbeats" "no contest." Take that you puny small god.

😂

RC: What do you think of the idea of Superman defeating Thor, which we recently saw in JLA/Avengers?

DAN JURGENS: No . . . not even possible. Even if you bring back Thor to his basic self, the Thor of issue one of my run, he would beat Superman.

Again, Pak disagrees as do other writers. All of these writers agree Hulk has Superman in strength so since you introduced this as your evidence I take it you share their opinions as well in this regard.

Ah yes, the same interview which says Superman is millions of times stronger than Thor. Take away a few millions and Doomsday still curbstomps Hulkie boy.

DAN JURGENS: I know. I know. Straight up? Superman is more powerful, but because of the magic weakness . . . but because of the magic component, Thor wins.

RC: In your opinion, is Superman is a lot more powerful than Thor?

DAN JURGENS: Yeah.

RC: Wow. When you worked on DC Vs. Marvel and pitted Quicksilver against Flash, you guys had boosted Quicksilver up to the speed of sound while Flash was running at multiples of the speed of light or whatever . . . would you say that Superman is as many times more powerful than Thor or the Hulk as Flash is as many times faster than Quicksilver?

DAN JURGENS: Yes.

RC: Wouldn’t that make Superman, like, millions of times more powerful than Thor?

DAN JURGENS: Yes.

What to chose? Decisions, decisions!!!

Editor's Note: Since publishing of the interview, Dan Jurgens has further expanded on his answer, contradicting the transcript of the interview. ComicBoards has listened to the tape and finds no indication of humor, sarcasm, irony or sardonic whit in Jurgens' statements or Richard Caponetti's questions. While we can't know what Mr. Jurgens was thinking, or if he silently laughed to himself or in a manner that could not be heard by the tape or by the interviewer, by all apperarences, Jurgens' comments here are genuine. ComicBoards stands by the interviewer in his assesments.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me that scan of Darkseid destroying that planet physically. I will be waiting.

I don't know if you like to play dumb, but your game is quite tiresome at times

Originally posted by carver9
Also, you just dont get it. Every writer have different opinions on who would win between Hulk and Superman. It's just how it is. One thing I do know is, Pak said Hulk would destroy Superman. Pak said nothing short of Galactus can stop WWH. Pak wrote Hulk lungs withstanding a 100+ Hercs (and yes, one Herc has planetary fts..the guy held Earth on his shoulders...held up the universe). Pak is writing Superman but lets not forget, Pak said Hulk would DESTROY Superman.

LOL, I would like to see Pak making those same claims 1 or 2 years into Superman's books. Look at the scans posted and that is giving you a preview of what He has in mind for Superman. Also Joe Casey stated in an interview that nothing not even Galactus can defeat a no mental block Superman. Do I believe this is true and preach it like gospel? NO, I don't. Unlike you. So whats the point here?

Originally posted by carver9
Like I've stated before, you using old scans from a Wizard comic (the same source that told us Superman top speed is 2000 mps) has credibility here...yeah right.

Fail Carver, I do not care for what the Wizard magazine has to say about the matter, I care for what PETER DAVID has to say about it, and
Peter David's opinion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours. IMO

and lol at your silly attempt to discredit the Wizard Magazine while YOU have said before numerous times that Superman's top speed is 2000 mps. Like I said I don't care what the wizard magazine has to say about this matter, I care what PETER DAVID former writer of the Hulk for 12 years + 11 issues has to say about it. Peter David EXPLORED most hulk incarnations like NO OTHER writer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah yes, the same interview which says Superman is millions of times stronger than Thor. Take away a few millions and Doomsday still curbstomps Hulkie boy.

What to chose? Decisions, decisions!!!

Jurgens believes it isn't possible for Superman to ever beat Thor.

All your writers agree Hulk is stronger than Superman and Jurgens believes 95 percent power which is less than Hulk strength which is dynamic beats Doomsday in a knock down drag out battle. Hulk definitely wins here.

Regarding Darkseid's planet-busting feat: carver is correct.

While we know that Darkseid destroyed a planet, we do not know how he did so.

It could have been accomplished through physical means, or it could have been accomplished through energy-based means. We just don't know.