Balrog (Durin's Bane) vs Hogwarts

Started by quanchi11214 pages

Originally posted by NemeBro
Can you tell a green field, from a cold steel rail
A smile from a veil
Do you think you can tell?
Hogwarts wins.

Did they get you to trade
You heroes for ghosts?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Did they get you to trade
You heroes for ghosts?
Balrog loses.

Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Quit spamming and derailing these topics, kid.

Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?
Shh.

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
And how we fouuuuuuuund
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not really a good analogy. We know elves can be hurt by arrows, blades and such, so it stands to reason a bullet would harm them.

So insisting that any and all spells would work on a Balrog who is utterly alien to the subjects some of the spells worked on is using a no limits fallacy.

ie we can conclude that those blast which made small craters in stone that the Death Eaters like to use would likely work on the Balrog, since it's a rock-like being that crumbled when it was destroyed.

It's actually a pretty good analogy. We know that the Balrog can be harmed and killed by magic. So I don't see why you suddenly think it's immune to Hogwartz' magic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Crucio is not a physical manifestation of pain or injury. It's magical and psychological. The Balrog CAN feel pain, and it has been proven to be vulnerable to magic since Gandalf did defeat it with magic. So why won't crucio work on it? Because it is made of rocks? That's some real shallow reasoning there.

Besides, it's not just crucio. Hogwartz can throw a whole lot of immobilization spells at it. And now people are going to tell me "prove that immobilization spells work". And I say, prove that immobilization spells don't work.


I get where you're coming from, but you can't ask people to prove a negative. The exact mechanism behind how the curse works was never explained in the movies(nor in the books either iirc), and seeing how it was never used on anyone beyond human-level durability, I believe the opposition is validated in their question as to whether or not the curse would incapacitate the Balrog as well.

Anyways, since nobody bothered to respond to my query regarding the Basilisk, I say that with the snake they win. Without it, stalemate or the Hogwarts team bfrs it or seals it off. Apart from these few tactics, I don't see most of the Hogwarts staff actually going toe-to-toe with the thing.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Anyways, since nobody bothered to respond to my query regarding the Basilisk, I say that with the snake they win. Without it, stalemate or the Hogwarts team bfrs it or seals it off. Apart from these few tactics, I don't see most of the Hogwarts staff actually going toe-to-toe with the thing.

By movie 7 the snake was dead...

facepalm

Originally posted by Epicurus
facepalm

Yup.
Op says same set up as in movie 7.

K.

Balrog got bested by one old wizard, Hogwarts wrecks him

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's actually a pretty good analogy. We know that the Balrog can be harmed and killed by magic. So I don't see why you suddenly think it's immune to Hogwartz' magic.
Exactly. They have no evidence just that it is a Balrog and lying about the spell having to do with the durability of its victim.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I get where you're coming from, but you can't ask people to prove a negative. The exact mechanism behind how the curse works was never explained in the movies(nor in the books either iirc), and seeing how it was never used on anyone beyond human-level durability, I believe the opposition is validated in their question as to whether or not the curse would incapacitate the Balrog as well.

The opposition is not valid because:

1. The Balrog was shown to be affected, hurt and eventually killed by magic

2. Crucio (and every other spell the wizards use) is magic.

To simply make an assertion that the Balrog is immune to the spell simply because "he's big and tough and scarier than humans" is irrational and derives from no concrete evidence. It would have been a somewhat valid argument if crucio has been shown not to work on someone with superior durability.

Plus, Balrog was defeated by a single mage. Here he'll be facing a whole school of them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The opposition is not valid because:

1. The Balrog was shown to be affected, hurt and eventually killed by magic

2. Crucio (and every other spell the wizards use) is magic.

To simply make an assertion that the Balrog is immune to the spell simply because "he's big and tough and scarier than humans" is irrational and derives from no concrete evidence. It would have been a somewhat valid argument if crucio has been shown not to work on someone with superior durability.

Plus, Balrog was defeated by a single mage. Here he'll be facing a whole school of them.


No, that's a no-limits-fallacy, because we don't know for sure that HPverse magic works the same way as LoTR magic.

Actually it's not irrational at all, seeing that the curse has never been used against anything more than an organic meatbag, and the most powerful unforgivable curse(AK) is ineffective against non-living objects like metal, rocks etc.

It's just the way debating works; you never ask the opposition to prove a negative. You need to prove your claim that the spell can function against a creature with such a unique physiology like the Balrog, not the other way round.

Not to be an ass but the teachers of Hogwarts were pretty lame as far as magic goes none of them would stand a chance even against Gandalf the grey..