DoS Rematch

Started by Brockalizer6 pages

DoS Rematch

This is a rematch of the epic first battle between Superman and Doomsday. Both combatants are the same versions that appeared in DoS. However, this time PIS and CIS are both off, meaning that the outcome hasn't been pre-ordained by the writers. Is this version of the Man of Steel capable of defeating the monster or is this version of Doomsday too much for this version of Superman?

Stipulations: No BFR, fight is to the death. Sun dipping is off limits, as is any tech that might exist in the fortress or JLA HQ, so no miracle machine, phantom zone projector, ect.

TBH I don't know how in the phuck Superman beat DD. Nothing was able to hurt him. I was thinking it was PIS that he beat him. I mean he managed to hurt DD for the first time at the very end of the comic where Superman was near death. So Superman letting loose is more than 5 times as powerful as his normal self. WTF?

Anyway Superman wins by letting loose in the very beginning.

Originally posted by h1a8
TBH I don't know how in the phuck Superman beat DD. Nothing was able to hurt him. I was thinking it was PIS that he beat him. I mean he managed to hurt DD for the first time at the very end of the comic where Superman was near death. So Superman letting loose is more than 5 times as powerful as his normal self. WTF?

Anyway Superman wins by letting loose in the very beginning.

Post-CRISIS Superman's mind limited his powers. Byrne and I think Wolfman too established in early Post-CRISIS stories that Superman's mind has an effect on his powers, like he lost his powers due to amnesia(yet still while powerless and amnesic, out-performed Silver Surfer against Parademons 😄 ). There's several examples of this, both clear and ambiguous. Loeb's run leading up to and including OUR WORLDS AT WAR is probably the best example. Mongul II was training Superman specifically to overcome the mental blocks, and you compare the fight of Superman/Mongul II vs an Imperiex Probe all the way through to AOS 595(I think it was) where the narration shows Superman's dropped the mental blocks, and you see him owning Imperiex Probes left and right with ease. And the narration shows he's been doing this for at least hours, perhaps days.

Superman dropped mental blocks when Doomsday threatened Lois. One example of this is comparing he team effort energy attack that was worthless, to after Doomsday threatened Lois, him slamming Doomsday into a building with a burst of heat vision. Going from hurting your hands punching Doomsday to beating Doomsday to death while injured kinda shows the power jump Superman had.

DD wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
TBH I don't know how in the phuck Superman beat DD. Nothing was able to hurt him. I was thinking it was PIS that he beat him. I mean he managed to hurt DD for the first time at the very end of the comic where Superman was near death. So Superman letting loose is more than 5 times as powerful as his normal self. WTF?

Anyway Superman wins by letting loose in the very beginning.

Doomsday seemed to be tanking some serious damage. Would dialing it up to 11 in the very beginning make Superman fatigue faster? I was thinking that his best shot would be to take Guy's Qwardian ring and use it to amp himself.

DC flat out stated years later that DD only lasted as long as he did because Superman held back.

DD didn't.

Superman would win.

^ retcon. he got legitimately taken to his limit back then by a peer. his durability doesn't fall under the "holding back" umbrella anyway.

Doomsday was above average superman. Superman still killed him first.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ retcon. he got legitimately taken to his limit back then by a peer. his durability doesn't fall under the "holding back" umbrella anyway.

It does. Every physical aspect of superman increases when he stops holding back.

well you'd be the guy to have it so lets see the kal-fax

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday was above average superman. Superman still killed him first.
It does. Every physical aspect of superman increases when he stops holding back.
Wrong. If that were true then his durability would increase as well when he stops holding back.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
well you'd be the guy to have it so lets see the kal-fax

Will do.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Wrong. If that were true then his durability would increase as well when he stops holding back.

It does. Superman can become total human if he forgets his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p05.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p06.jpg

And his stats fluctuate with the belief in his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_04.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_06.jpg

When darkseid says he's nearly as strong as him, he became just that strong.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_07.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_08.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_09.jpg

And when he is freed from mental control, he smacks Darkseid around like a two bit whore.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586f.jpg

So superman can go from human to near darkseid level to above darkseid level based on his mental state.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Will do.
It does. Superman can become total human if he forgets his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p05.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p06.jpg

And his stats fluctuate with the belief in his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_04.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_06.jpg

When darkseid says he's nearly as strong as him, he became just that strong.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_07.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_08.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_09.jpg

And when he is freed from mental control, he smacks Darkseid around like a two bit whore.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586f.jpg

So superman can go from human to near darkseid level to above darkseid level based on his mental state.

Yet when "shit got real" during the DoS arc it remained unchanged.

Originally posted by quanchi112
DD wins.

How exactly is it Doomsday wins when the OP basically makes it so Superman goes all out far, far earlier? It was his humanized mind that caused him to do so poorly in DOS, and CIS being off means he doesn't have that weakness here.

And, CIS being off does not benefit Doomsday in the least considering he'll be just as bright as before.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Will do.
It does. Superman can become total human if he forgets his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p05.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p06.jpg

And his stats fluctuate with the belief in his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_04.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_06.jpg

When darkseid says he's nearly as strong as him, he became just that strong.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_07.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_08.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_09.jpg

And when he is freed from mental control, he smacks Darkseid around like a two bit whore.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586f.jpg

So superman can go from human to near darkseid level to above darkseid level based on his mental state.

that was a good superman story, but like this guy said:
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Yet when "shit got real" during the DoS arc it remained unchanged.
I mean, what was the issue that reduced his durability so drastically that the retcon (which it was) would even justify itself?

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Yet when "shit got real" during the DoS arc it remained unchanged.

Wut? That's exactly what happened, superman's durability and strength both increased.

Superman states that DD seemingly getting stronger:
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=ag_doomsday3_AoSM497_11.jpg

Which was confirmed here-- Doomsday has dynamic, increasing, rage-fueled strength:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1995%20-%20Doomsday%20Annual%20Year%20One/?action=view&current=DA1_35.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1995%20-%20Doomsday%20Annual%20Year%20One/?action=view&current=DA1_36.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1995%20-%20Doomsday%20Annual%20Year%20One/?action=view&current=DA1_37.jpg

DD was so far above the Class 100 Superman physically that he was hurting his fists on DD's skin:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=ag_doomsdaySMAC648_18.jpg

When DD's got to Metropolis, Supes still was getting dominated and getting wrecked as an inferior--

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-09.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-11.jpg

DD then directly threatens LOIS--and all out mode begins:
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-13.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-14.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-15.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-16.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-17.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-18.jpg

He truly hurts DD for the first time:
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-19.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-20.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-21.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1992%20-%20Death%20of%20Superman/?action=view&current=Supermanv2075-22.jpg

Even the NOVELIZATION acknowledged his dynamic holding back factor and all out mode:
to his mindset:

Oh yeah, and even his DEATH in DoS was due to his humanized mindset: causing him to think of hismelf as a mortal man:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that was a good superman story, but like this guy said: I mean, what was the issue that reduced his durability so drastically that the retcon (which it was) would even justify itself?

I don't think you're getting what Abhi(and I) are saying. Superman's durability during most of DOS was his "standard level" before the Kryptonite X(and later Mongul II training and other) power-up(s). When Lois was threatened, mental blocks were dropped and his powers went up.

Also just look how far his holding back and not holding back affects his durability.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651e.jpg

Maxima was tossing superman around casually and even downed him for some moments. But then he was brought to his kryptonian mindset by eradicator and he walked through maxima's psi-bolts and oneshotted her.

That's the difference between a holding back and not holding back superman's durability

Also from the same writer Dan Jurgens, superman regulates his power and durability at a subconscious level.

The odds were against supes, that is what made his victory and death an heroic tale. The same fight in forum mode means Doomsy takes a large majority, 8.5/10 maybe.

Also just look how far his holding back and not holding back affects his durability.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/ActionComics651e.jpg

Maxima was tossing superman around casually and even downed him for some moments. But then he was brought to his kryptonian mindset by eradicator and he walked through maxima's psi-bolts and oneshotted her.

That's the difference between a holding back and not hold