DoS Rematch

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Not really much different from say Thor hitting something saying he is going all out, but still being able to strike with more force despite previously claiming he is giving it everything. Doesn't mean he has dynamic strength, neither does Superman, the instances of them showing true dynamic strength are few and far between.

Basically they hold back a lot is really what it boils down to.

http://i.imgur.com/r6fSzMM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BsuI6RG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RLVhxut.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/An5EqDw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/89yNArC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9nbuyjh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ufThsAJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0JT3oLJ.jpg

The stuff with Dark Supergirl who was owning jla in Loeb's run and all that? A dying supergirl was doing that.

Also Superman totally lost his powers when he doubted himself, broke his ribs and all that stuff. When he overcame that doubt, he was Superman again.

http://i.imgur.com/MKQ1Ln8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wTt6VdP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/321QZGM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aYOvjh9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qLYmeLi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nte428S.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/k9g57uX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OMjhlBD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qlr27lk.jpg

That's not just holding back, that's dynamic power factor at its best. It fluctuates their powers, from human level to above top tier level. If Thor or whoever you think is comparable to superman in this regard, its time to back it up with proof.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Not really much different from say Thor hitting something saying he is going all out, but still being able to strike with more force despite previously claiming he is giving it everything. Doesn't mean he has dynamic strength, neither does Superman, the instances of them showing true dynamic strength are few and far between.

Basically they hold back a lot is really what it boils down to.

This statement has no correlation to Thor's canon whatsoever in terms of dynamic strength.

You could ask any of the Thor Corps here and they should affirm this position.

The only thing I can think of that even remotely addresses this point in relation to the Odinson is Warrior Madness. The only time Thor mentioned his "Holding back" to avoid this was with The Hulk in an annual.

Even then it doesn't work.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Not really much different from say Thor hitting something saying he is going all out, but still being able to strike with more force despite previously claiming he is giving it everything. Doesn't mean he has dynamic strength, neither does Superman, the instances of them showing true dynamic strength are few and far between.

Basically they hold back a lot is really what it boils down to.

Also as a descendant of Rao, superman draws strength from the sun god himself.

http://i.imgur.com/u7U9Q7p.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/604BtBE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D2ogzv8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kvRHv2d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6i3n3it.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WyOTQh0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EEzWVyP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oAouehd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3nZVQco.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FZz61Ut.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lKzQskT.jpg

As Mnemon says superman is unique and can draw strength from the race memories even without his knowledge.

OK, both Pr and Bada want us to get back on topic and stop about the dynamic strength thing. So, hopefully what I say doesn't go against their wishes, as I'm merely trying to explain things here.

My argument is that Superman, based on the OP's scenario, will fight Doomsday like he did at the end, much earlier, perhaps the beginning, of the fight. He Doomsday was hinted at getting stronger in DEATH OF SUPERMAN, it was confirmed in Roger Stern's story during DOOMSDAY ANNUAL 1995, and Superman was even hurting his hands hitting Doomsday and Superman's heat vision combined with the energy attacks of Fire, Booster Gold, Guy and J'onn/Bloodwynd had no effect. Yet when Lois was threatened, Superman's heat vision knocked Doomsday back with ease, slamming him into a building, and an exhausted, injured Superman beats Doomsday to death fairly quickly, while previously having no effect whatsoever.

This all looks to me to be a pretty clear example of dynamic strength, and via the OP Superman would fight like this far, far sooner. Yet so many people say no, Superman doesn't have dynamic strength, and I have to provide evidence while people nitpick, ignore, ect to deny it despite Abhi and I showing John Byrne(the creator of Post-CRISIS Superman) and Marv Wolfman(a very important early Post-CRISIS Superman writer who contributed almost as much as Byrne in those days) both showing Superman's powers fluctuating directly based on his mind, even before DOS. And stories after, even directly referencing the DOS events showing Superman holding back. And other examples, as well. Yet, people still dispute and deny without showing any actual evidence to refute examples where the FREAKING STORYLINE is about Superman's mind regulating his power level.

What does you guys being so hard set on refusing to accept what multiple stories clearly show say about your hatred of Superman?

The self claimed "Superman hatters" are the ones who cannot deal with the idea and the evidence presented that Superman's power fluctuate with his mind set.

It is the same people over and over again.

This was explained and used during the whole post crisis era.

Those who claim otherwise either have never read any of those stories or if they had their reading comprehension skills is Quan-tifiable to be below average 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
Will do.
It does. Superman can become total human if he forgets his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p05.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p06.jpg

And his stats fluctuate with the belief in his powers.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_04.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_06.jpg

When darkseid says he's nearly as strong as him, he became just that strong.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_07.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_08.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_09.jpg

And when he is freed from mental control, he smacks Darkseid around like a two bit whore.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/darkseid/ActionComics586f.jpg

So superman can go from human to near darkseid level to above darkseid level based on his mental state.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El

Those who claim otherwise either have never read any of those stories or if they had their reading comprehension skills is Quan-tifiable to be below average 😉

I see whatcha did there.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'm pretty certain that I remember it being shown that it was actually Dessad posing as Darkseid all along.

And what does it matter if the whole reason was because Superman's powers increased because he was CONVINCED his power came from Darkseid? Or are you just making a correction and not arguing against the evidence?

Guys, this is the last time I ask, so please, drop it.

The next bit of off topic discussion will earn that person a temp ban. Get back to the topic or don't post in this thread. This is the 3rd time Pr and I have asked nicely.

A lot of good arguments have been made here and at first I thought it was a stomp in DD favor. With that said, right now, I'm undecided. Guess I will wait to respond again when I am done reading the rest of the arguments here. Good job everyone...I see a lil of Carver9 in all of you (you're progressing).

🙂

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of good arguments have been made here and at first I thought it was a stomp in DD favor. With that said, right now, I'm undecided. Guess I will wait to respond again when I am done reading the rest of the arguments here. Good job everyone...I see a lil of Carver9 in all of you (you're progressing).

🙂

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of good arguments have been made here and at first I thought it was a stomp in DD favor. With that said, right now, I'm undecided. Guess I will wait to respond again when I am done reading the rest of the arguments here. Good job everyone...I see a lil of Carver9 in all of you (you're progressing).

🙂

I would prefer, Carver Prime, thank you very much!

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of good arguments have been made here and at first I thought it was a stomp in DD favor. With that said, right now, I'm undecided. Guess I will wait to respond again when I am done reading the rest of the arguments here. Good job everyone...I see a lil of Carver9 in all of you (you're progressing).

🙂

That sounds really, really, really gay.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That sounds really, really, really gay.

😂 😂 not talking about that kind of 'in', Pr.

Originally posted by Zack Fair

😆

Originally posted by carver9
😂 😂 not talking about that kind of 'in', Pr.

Too late.

A lot of people seem to be making the same mistake and I don't know if it's due to lack of reading comprehension or some other mitigating factor. In the OP I specifically stated that these are the same versions of the two characters. Anything revealed by Mongul, Batman, or anyone else years after the DoS arc, whether it's mental blocks or divine lineage is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if something was retconned later, at the time it happened it was cannon. The "gloves off" Superman from DoS is not the same as the "gloves off" version trained by Mongul for the OWAW arc. The only feats that matter are those that occurred during the arc or that happened prior to the arc but after the crisis reboot.
Now, that being said who do I believe will win? Honestly it could go either way in my opinion. If Superman fatigues at a greater rate (like when you "floor it" in JBL's vette scenario) while going all out then I'd give the edge to Doomsday. If he tires at his normal rate, but just has a little extra zing in his attack then Superman would probably win. From what I saw in the arc when Supes stopped holding back his strength increased fractionally not exponentially. After all the damage Doomsday soaked from the JLA, and Superman himself I believe that it would still take a little while to soften him up even if Superman isn't holding back.

If we're not including retcons, then they split yet again.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I see whatcha did there.

And what does it matter if the whole reason was because Superman's powers increased because he was CONVINCED his power came from Darkseid? Or are you just making a correction and not arguing against the evidence?