Thanos VS THE WORTHY

Started by Bentley11 pages
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would Kuurth be inferior to Angrir? He was noticeably more powerful then Colossus Juggernaut and was doing the kind of damage to a high end strongman that Thanos would envy.

Lack of feats? After losing the backing of Cytorrak Kuurth would just be an Amped Colossus. Eh, maybe I'm confused and a part of Juggernaut Colossus's power remained in the mix, in which case you can ignore my point. I'll gladly admit that Kuurth is one of the few threats that can take on Thanos from what we saw (though he did most of his stuff with Cytorrak)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Angrir absolutely decimated Rulk in close combat. During the same storyline that Bendis made it clear he was easily an elite strong man on the same level as Hulk and Thor.

Post-Absorption Rulk is nowhere near Hulk level nor Thor level, much less if we compare him with the going-all-out Thor that wanted to hurt Thanos and failed to do anything. These are established facts.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fyi, at the end of the story arc where Wonder Man takes him out and proves to be stronger, we see Rulk and Thor arm wrestling equally. Not that this is worth anything on it's own, but with the other evidence such as during the Infinity Gems scene, it makes things evident.

Now, I'm sure certain people would love to spin it in a way that better represents their favorite but the truth is, Wonder Man was being portrayed as someone straight up above Herald level in that scene and would have probably overpowered either Thor or Hulk just as badly in that same situation. It is what it is.

No "would have"s here, I'll stick with things printed on comicbooks, this is the only way to actually discuss in these forums.

Originally posted by Bentley
Lack of feats? After losing the backing of Cytorrak Kuurth would just be an Amped Colossus. Eh, maybe I'm confused and a part of Juggernaut Colossus's power remained in the mix, in which case you can ignore my point. I'll gladly admit that Kuurth is one of the few threats that can take on Thanos from what we saw (though he did most of his stuff with Cytorrak)

I suggest you read his fight with Juggernaut Colossus after his depowering then. What? After losing his backing, Kuurth was clearly a lot more powerful then Juggernaut Colossus, he simply lacked the unstoppable enchantment then.

Originally posted by Bentley
Post-Absorption Rulk is nowhere near Hulk level nor Thor level, much less if we compare him with the going-all-out Thor that wanted to hurt Thanos and failed to do anything. These are established facts.

Rulk took some lickings during Jeff Parker's initial issues but nothing to warrant this statement.

Originally posted by Bentley
No "would have"s here, I'll stick with things printed on comicbooks, this is the only way to actually discuss in these forums.

Okay, then let's. Rulk when he first appeared in the Avengers was said to be tougher then Hulk. He was very clearly implied to the most powerful hero present (In a line up including Thor and IIRC Strange/Black Bolt), and took energy blasts from the Infinity Gems arguably better then Thor/Namor. That's only off the top of my head.

Yes, Rulk acquired some low showings but I don't understand how that somehow negates his ridiculous past or the fact that Bendis was treating him about as well as he's ever treated any Top Tier under his pen. Which is not saying much but still, worth noting.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I suggest you read his fight with Juggernaut Colossus after his depowering then. What? After losing his backing, Kuurth was clearly a lot more powerful then Juggernaut Colossus, he simply lacked the unstoppable enchantment then.

I'd argue that Angrir was shown to be more powerful than regular Juggernaut Colossus, who up to that point wasn't really all that impressive. But if you have any particular showing to make you think there was any difference between Angrir and post-Cytorrak Kuurth I am more than willing to go with it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Rulk took some lickings during Jeff Parker's initial issues but nothing to warrant this statement.

I don't see how Rulk would make it to their weight class at all after the battle with Angrir. M.O.D.O.K. pretty much clears up that absorbtion is the only deal breaker Rulk had against such an opponent. An opponent that was more than conclusively beaten by Thor.

I'm not going to dwell in that run's admittedly low showings. If I focus on the Angrir combat is mostly because the battles between Rulk and actual established powerhouses are far and between.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, then let's. Rulk when he first appeared in the Avengers was said to be tougher then Hulk. He was very clearly implied to the most powerful hero present (In a line up including Thor and IIRC Strange/Black Bolt), and took energy blasts from the Infinity Gems arguably better then Thor/Namor. That's only off the top of my head.

His showing against the Infinity Gems was excellent, but power implications should be taken with a grain of salt when the feats don't back them up. I believe Rulk should be able to beat Namor in a good day though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes, Rulk acquired some low showings but I don't understand how that somehow negates his ridiculous past or the fact that Bendis was treating him about as well as he's ever treated any Top Tier under his pen. Which is not saying much but still, worth noting.

Again, the best Rulk showings were pretty much retconned away by his power absorbtion abilities. I know he remains powerful and a sensible step above the likes of Colossus and Thing, I assumed that he was around Wonderman level before they had their brief skirmish.

I believe that Wonderman at his very best it's around -non-jobbing- Thor level, while Rulk at his very best -without absorbtion- is sensibly under that power level. This belief comes mostly from the fact that Rulk has not really beaten anyone in worth their weight in the top tier rank. There can be a gap between regular bricks like Colossus and Wonderman, Namor fits that gap perfectly, and I don't see why Rulk cannot share such ranking without it being an insult to the character.

Originally posted by ODG

For starters...maybe because they are 8 Thor level beings.. ya know.. because Thor killed 2 of them while injured and dying? If they were all thor level.. he certainly couldn't kill 2 of them while weakened himself to below Thor level. That makes zero logical sense.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There's no maybe. It was flat out said that activating the Bomb reduced Black Bolt's power levels to less then half of what they were. That is why the later screams were so pathetic in comparison to the first and were actively getting weaker. And the bomb was activated by the first scream and it actively converted sound into light power so even the power of the first one is questionable.

the later ones were weakened. speculation that the first was. imo it wasn't at all. and it really didn't do anything to thanos anyway except drop the city on him. that single attack far and away was more damage than any of the worthy threw out--individually or collectively.

Iyo maybe, but this is completely subjective and the bottom line is, that Thanos punch did nothing but knock Hulk off of his feet. As a matter of fact, he smiled. There's better evidence suggesting Groot is above Thanos physically

What's there to disagree? Do you not know what a smile is?

looking at the scan again, i guess he could be smiling. not exactly clear imo, but whatever. groot got one-shot ko'd by thanos in gotg....so.....

Proxima trapped him under the weight of a Star and reverted him to Banner. If Thanos can do that, sure he could defeat him similarly, but I don't think he can.

thanos>>>>proxima is what i'm saying. i've absolutlely no doubt thanos would kill hulk. but you're right, it's opinion. just not sure how anyone could question that at all.

It looked like Thor was trying to hold his ground but this is subjective so agree to disagree.

holding his ground? we'll def disagree. it is at least equally plausible that the shot from thanos ko'd him. it def made him drop the hammer. caught up as he was in that growing blast it certainly looked like he was about to be as dead as the rest of them to me. that was after ONE shot. he took thor's lightning, charged strike, palmed the hammer and ko'd or nearly ko'd him to the point of defenseless. that is pure domination, and showed he was WELL beyond thor. the durability of the other worthy were questionable aside from juggs and nul. attuma had a hand chopped off. IM sliced up gargoyle. thing was killed without effort by thor. none of them have even CLOSE to the durability feats thor has. thanos could def take those guys out early.

I can think of some characters who have tanked lightning blasts from Thor. They like all things fluctuate.

odg brought up IM who absorbed it, and juggs who is....juggs. radioactive man did, but i've not seen the scan and i doubt he laughed it off and called for another....

It is worth noting however as one point was the Avengers being pushed to the brink and just not being able to cope with everything happening all at once. I'm not saying one particular battle weakened them or something (At least I don't think so). I'm saying that the culmination of their activities should be noted.

and i don't think it matters at all. thor's been in FAR greater and longer battles. hype is hype. hulk never tires. and cap? meaningless.....

You really can't think of any instance when a Herald or a group of Heralds was problematic for Thanos?

recently? nope. aside from the avengers arc where he was hurt/injured from the cube. you have one?

He had a nice durability showing with the lightning but even that isn't anything above his older showings. I have no idea what about his strength or his output in that comic makes you think he could easily kill the Worthy or something when Hulk and Thor were unhurt by his punches more or less.

the way he dealt with thor for starters. the way he one shot black dwarf for another. i have no clue how you can look at the ONE time he punched thor in that fight and say thor was "unhurt". seriously? as i said, it could easily be argued he was ko'd depending on how you want to view the art.

How is Thanos going to go about easily killing the Worthy? What about Infinity in anyway suggests that he can go about easily killing Heralds when that's exactly what he DIDN'T do? I don't even understand how this reasoning makes sense. Not to mention the Worthy have ridiculous healing factors.

you seem to believe they were invincible or something, or that they were equals of thor. they weren't. not imo. most certainly by feats they weren't. what attacks did you see that would take out thanos?

And how the hell is Thor going to kill a couple of the Worthy members either? He'd get instantly wrecked by this team.

by the whole team? of course he couldn't beat them all. who said that? lightning strikes would def kill a couple if he really wanted to though. omniblasts could buy him time. bfr could buy time for him to do more, maybe kill another with more lightning or a return hammer attack. and NONE of that would be outlier material for thor. i'd say he could kill any 2 at a time so long as they weren't hulk or juggs. and i'd love to see what the lightning would do to hulk since we saw what it did to him easily in the past.

You seem to be taking an extreme outlier (vs. Angrir/Nul) and applying it at as the norm or something and then taking it to a whole new degree with him facing this team. Worse, you seem to be applying Thor's high end showing retroactively to Thanos as a norm which doesn't make sense because Thor, specifically Mjolnir, can accomplish things in a certain way that Thanos cannot. [/B]

and you seem to be equating the worthy with thor when in reality they were not. and thor has repeatedly been shown to be far below thanos. none of the worthy have close to the feats of power with the hammer or the durability feats he has. thanos durability to just too great. i mean seriously--i know i don't have to go through and list his durability feats. he utterly tanks high herald attacks unnoticed. i'm not even calling on his tp (no reason he couldn't try and tp control one to help him attack the others) or his force fields. bfr would be an option as well to buy time. that's all of he doesn't just want to brawl it out. they would need to collectively pound him for a LONG time but if he is capable of taking thor out of the fight with one punch, stopping thrown hammers with a gesture, handling lightning and energy blasts on the level of odin and omega, he could def take out the worthy. hulk and juggs would be the issues here, but i have little doubt thanos could and would kill the rest.

i cannot believe i'm defending thanos of all characters here, but people seem to think of thanos as just a durable high herald type or something. he is far stronger than high herald, has far greater energy output and of course his durability is off the charts. when he first resurrected he wiped out an entire WORLD, primed with faith energies of the uct. if you know about the cardinals, you know that faith energy was pretty uber. he wiped out the whole planet effortlessly. he's matched power with the inbetweener and he seems to be more powerful now. i am likewise amazed that someone could think he could NOT make this a fight. going by just worthy feats, leaving all things thor aside, THAT stance seems to be the one that doesn't make sense imo.

pretty sure this will just degenerate into a thanos/thor discussion, or an imo/iyo circle, so i leave the last word to you knowing that it's not all that likely either of us will be changing our stance.

Just want to throw out there that Ronin one shot killed Black Dwarf and again, what Proxima did to Hulk doesn't mean Thanos can do the same thing unless Leo can provide scans of Thanos throwing around the weight of a star. So you saying Thanos>>>Proxima doesn't mean a thing. Continue Rage and Leo.

Originally posted by carver9
Ronin

lol, that's one funny typo

Ronan killed Black Dwarf with a sneak attack from behind. This is while Black Dwarf was holding his own against Gladiator, Super Skrull, and Annihilus. If Thanos had fought Hulk (instead of having Proxima one-shot Hulk), there's no doubt in my mind that he would stomp Hulk as easily as he stomped Thor and Surfer.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Ronan killed Black Dwarf with a sneak attack from behind. This is while Black Dwarf was holding his own against Gladiator, Super Skrull, and Annihilus. If Thanos had fought Hulk (instead of having Proxima one-shot Hulk), there's no doubt in my mind that he would stomp Hulk as easily as he stomped Thor and Surfer.

Uuuummmm, Thanos snuck attack Black Dwarf as well. He didn't see it coming and the difference is, Ronan killed Black Dwarf whereas Thanos koed him. Not saying Ronin is stronger than Thanos but using him as a source isn't helping anything.

I will disregard your Thanos vs Hulk comment since it doesn't belong here. Don't want to derail the thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Uuuummmm, Thanos snuck attack Black Dwarf as well. He didn't see it coming and the difference is, Ronin killed Black Dwarf whereas Thanos koed him. Not saying Ronin is stronger than Thanos but using him as a source isn't helping anything.

I will disregard your Thanos vs Hulk comment since it doesn't belong here. Don't want to derail the thread.

😂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
😂

Lol...can you stop that Stilt. You knew who I was talking about.

Funny thing about this is what if Thane hadn't shown up. Thanos powered up DBZ style and we see Thor being blown back. The ownage by Thanos prior was a warmup IMO.

👆

SS Thanos was about to end everything

Yeah, the mere act of powering up was blowing Thor and the other Avengers around like rag dolls. In fact, Thanos nearly blew Thor's entire costume off just by going Super Saiyan. Thor couldn't even stand up, let alone get near Thanos or mount an offense.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Don't get me wrong, the Worthy are legit heralds, but what have they really shown that can effectively take out Thanos?

Thanos on the other hand has feats of utterly embarrassing heralds through sheer muscle or outright power. It doesn't help that a few of the Worthy has had some less than impressive durability showings.

I think the more accurate question is what has Thanos done to support the opinion that he could defeat 8 Thor-level heralds simultaneously?
Originally posted by leonidas
IM absorbed it so that is different (or he did once, always funny his old armor does things his new one can't....) juggs is juggs. didn't know about RM though. but yeah, it was that there were 2, and that he asked for more. never saw that happen before. the power of the lightning does fluctuate from time to time, but in general it is usually pretty dern uber.
Iron Man would have just been empowered by a second lightning bolt even more. But Bleeding Edge Iron Man absorbed two of Thor's lightning bolts recently. He didn't do it easily, but that could just as easily be argued as having more to do with him trying to focus, calibrate and manipulate the lightning to transform a Pantheons-amped Destroyer Diablo. Also, I really don't think Juggernaut would have been much more affected by a second lightning bolt either. I mean, it was comical how easy he took the first one. And Radioactive Man did the same (not as comical, but just as easily).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
While I think Ben should win, it would not by any means be conclusive and there physical stats are more or less equal.

Why would Kuurth be inferior to Angrir? He was noticeably more powerful then Colossus Juggernaut and was doing the kind of damage to a high end strongman that Thanos would envy.

😐

Angrir absolutely decimated Rulk in close combat. During the same storyline that Bendis made it clear he was easily an elite strong man on the same level as Hulk and Thor. Fyi, at the end of the story arc where Wonder Man takes him out and proves to be stronger, we see Rulk and Thor arm wrestling equally. Not that this is worth anything on it's own, but with the other evidence such as during the Infinity Gems scene, it makes things evident.

Now, I'm sure certain people would love to spin it in a way that better represents their favorite but the truth is, Wonder Man was being portrayed as someone straight up above Herald level in that scene and would have probably overpowered either Thor or Hulk just as badly in that same situation. It is what it is.

This. 👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
For starters...maybe because they are 8 Thor level beings.. ya know.. because Thor killed 2 of them while injured and dying? If they were all thor level.. he certainly couldn't kill 2 of them while weakened himself to below Thor level. That makes zero logical sense.
Thor-level =/= Thor-equal. But let's consider Thor's actual career of 2v1 fights. Thor defeated Surfer and Beta Ray Bill without nearly dying. Thor defeated Surfer and Adam Warlock w/SG without nearly dying. Thor defeated Loki and Fenrir w/ Mjolnir knockoffs in straight H2H without nearly dying. And Thor defeated Angrir and Nul but at nearly the cost of his own life. So really, I think you need to reconsider your assertions and take back your bald accusations about what makes "logical sense."
Originally posted by One-Punch
Yeah, the mere act of powering up was blowing Thor and the other Avengers around like rag dolls. In fact, Thanos nearly blew Thor's entire costume off just by going Super Saiyan. Thor couldn't even stand up, let alone get near Thanos or mount an offense.

The other Avengers were already defeated by his Black Order. Beyond Thanos' cheapshot ambush that took out Binary, Thor was the only Avenger that Thanos really engaged in a straight fight. Give credit where credit's due, but let's not inflate what Thanos did there.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Yeah, the mere act of powering up was blowing Thor and the other Avengers around like rag dolls. In fact, Thanos nearly blew Thor's entire costume off just by going Super Saiyan. Thor couldn't even stand up, let alone get near Thanos or mount an offense.

You guys are blowing things out of proportion. Thor's clothes were already coming off from the blow he struck Thanos with.

Blowing people away isn't much. These beings should be able to survive planet destruction or something close.

Bottomline: No one has shown how Thanos gets around Kuurth or Nul.
Either one of them would wtf pawn Thanos in little time. Thanos doesn't have the power to crush or damage Uru or adamantium.

Originally posted by leonidas
you seem to believe they were invincible or something, or that they were equals of thor. they weren't.

Leo summed up my argument perfectly here.