Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh wow, we disagree what a shock.
Your bad taste is uncontested.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not sure what was ballless aboutSpoiler:
killing Han Solo, having black and female leads and bait-and-switching Kylo Ren into a whiny, entitled, backwards-looking, legacy-obsessed, easily-enraged fanboy.
They killed off
Spoiler:.
a character who was slated for death 30 years ago by both writer and actor. Not exactly an earthshakingly original decision. ROTS killed children
A black actor in 2015? #soedgy
An entitled and easily-enraged whiner? Anakin who?
Originally posted by ares834
One thing I certainly wouldn't call this film is "ballless'.Spoiler:
Luke was barely in the film, he didn't recreate the Jedi Order, Han and Leia's kid fell to the dark side, Han and Leia aren't together, and Han Solo is killed!Edit: Seems I was ninjaed...
Spoiler:
Correct: the writers shoehorned events to bring us right back to the beginning. AnempireFirst Order with a planet-killingDeath StarStarkiller looking to rule supreme, an intrepidrebellionresistance opposing them, no Jedi around to fight because of yet another purge, and Han Solo back as a smuggler because why not?Not sure how Han and Leia not being married, another Skywalker offspring falling to the dark side, and Han indicate balls.
Originally posted by The_TempestSpoiler:
Correct: the writers shoehorned events to bring us right back to the beginning. AnempireFirst Order with a planet-killingDeath StarStarkiller looking to rule supreme, an intrepidrebellionresistance opposing them, no Jedi around to fight because of yet another purge, and Han Solo back as a smuggler because why not?Not sure how Han and Leia not being married, another Skywalker offspring falling to the dark side, and Han indicate balls.
It indicates that they will completely subvert people's expectations and
Spoiler:
kill of the most popular character of the franchise.
That's very ballsy.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
They killed offSpoiler:.
a character who was slated for death 30 years ago by both writer and actor. Not exactly an earthshakingly original decision. ROTS killed childrenA black actor in 2015? #soedgy
An entitled and easily-enraged whiner? Anakin who?
Spoiler:
Not killing children doesn't make you ballless. We had infinitely more of an emotional stake in Han than we did those random brats.Having a black and female main character in a massive franchise like Star Wars is kind of a big deal, yes.
Kylo Ren was Anakin actually done well. I can't believe you compared Anakin favorably to him. We didn't get acclimated to him, he was a perfect little wunderkind in TPM, then he suddenly became insufferable in AotC and finally slightly less so in RotS. He was always an entirely unrelateable, uninteresting and ultimately grating character. At no point does the audience really connect with him. Kylo Ren's character was genuinely interesting, had real pathos, was well acted and I thought the idea that he was struggling with the light side was something we haven't seen before.
Originally posted by NephthysSpoiler:
Not killing children doesn't make you ballless. We had infinitely more of an emotional stake in Han than we did those random brats.
And yet people found the scene of Anakin killing those random children to be absolutely chilling.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Having a black and female main character in a massive franchise like Star Wars is kind of a big deal, yes.
Again: #soedgy
Originally posted by NephthysSpoiler:
Kylo Ren was Anakin actually done well. I can't believe you compared Anakin favorably to him. We didn't get acclimated to him, he was a perfect little wunderkind in TPM, then he suddenly became insufferable in AotC and finally slightly less so in RotS. He was always an entirely unrelateable, uninteresting and ultimately grating character. Kylo Ren's character was genuinely interesting, had real pathos, was well acted and I thought the idea that he was struggling with the light side was something we haven't seen before.
Your hatred of the prequels is noted, the rest are just words. I found Kylo Ren to be absolutely uninteresting: with the mask on, he's an imitation of Darth Vader. With the mask off, he's
Spoiler:
Hayden Christiansen, minus 2 movies taking us through his emotional journey, his perfectly understandable motivation, and his pathos.
We disagree. It's OK.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin doesn't have an emotional journey. He's an utter tool and monster from beginning to end. His story is badly acted and badly told. There's nothing there of value.(also you can't count TPM because he's a completely different character between that and AotC and has no development in it)
Suuuure.
Please go on about
Spoiler:.
how Kylo Ren's desire to be a willing mass-murdering war criminal is more relatable than Anakin's desire to save loved ones from death
@Tempest, pretty much agree.
Originally posted by The_TempestThis in particular sums up my feelings.
Beyond that, there's not much going for the film as far as I'm concerned. If the tragedy of the prequels is that the characters failed to serve the story, I submit that the tragedy of Episode VII is that the story failed to serve its characters.
That said Episode 8 is going to demand a more original story and will possess a greater level of emotional investment, so altogether the trilogy has potential. I also think Kylo has a lot of potential too, and he certainly piqued my interest.
Having a black and female main character in a massive franchise like Star Wars is kind of a big deal, yes.Having a main black and female character was overdue and in the case of Star Wars, a social expectation. Ballsy would be doing the opposite rather than appealing to popular demand lol. Not that it's a bad thing, but pandering to the times is undoubtedly a safe move bound to be well received.
I'm growing to hate this movie the more I think about it. Which is a shame. Such a pretty flick and the actors are trying.
Anakin is better than Ren by the way. Ren was the child of two war heroes and the nephew to the last, and possibly greatest, Jedi of all time. I cannot begin to think of a reasonable reason for him to have turned evil so his internal struggle in this movie falls flat.
Meh. I'm not exactly unopposed to Kylo being a loon. The dark side tends to draw the emotionally unstable. I'm opposed to the idea of advertising Kylo as an emotionally-compelling bad guy as if it's some sort of new invention and then utterly failing to deliver. Static villains aren't a bad thing, especially in Star Wars. Everybody loves the Emperor and dude doesn't have a single shred of
Spoiler:in him.
redemption
If I were to sum up this movie in a way other than "it has no balls," I'd simply say it failed to deliver on its promises. 👆
Originally posted by Beniboybling
@Tempest, pretty much agree.
This in particular sums up my feelings.
👆
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That said Episode 8 is going to demand a more original story and will possess a greater level of emotional investment, so altogether the trilogy has potential. I also think Kylo has a lot of potential too, and he certainly piqued my interest.
I don't doubt that the remaining two episodes can be made into good movies. But the nature of its overarching story to me means it will be an uphill battle.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm opposed to the idea of advertising Kylo as an emotionally-compelling bad guy as if it's some sort of new invention and then utterly failing to deliver. Static villains aren't a bad thing, especially in Star Wars. Static villains aren't a bad thing, especially in Star Wars. Everybody loves the Emperor and dude doesn't have a single shred ofSpoiler:in him.
redemptionIf I were to sum up this movie in a way other than "it has no balls," I'd simply say it failed to deliver on its promises. 👆
Interesting. The movie never actually does this and the trailers and promotional material advertised him as the Vader-esque badass we see in the first half. His character is in fact a complete surprise if you go in just on that. This leads me to think that you were actually built up by us in the SW forum discussing it and you went in expecting more than it was.
It seemed to me that you went in pretty fully spoiled on who he was and what his deal was and as a result the character didn't connect to you like it did for others.
Spoiler:
If I was being nasty I'd say you went in predisposed to judge him harshly due to the favorable comparisons with the PT characters but naw.