Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Started by Nephthys260 pages
Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I understand the criticism in that Kylo, as The Heavy, is basically the film's foremost representation of villainy. In a genre film like Star Wars, much of the villain's credibility comes from their physical {or metaphysical} might.

So when the villain comes off as ineffective, even for reasons that are logical in-universe, some people view it as thematically inappropriate.

I'd say that anyone who felt like that kind of missed the whole point of Kylo Ren's character. He's not really "The Heavy". If you notice, he's spends most of the movie actually reacting to the heroes. He wants to be like that but he isn't yet.

In terms of his character, it's entirely thematically appropriate for him to end up like that.

Also I think its being overstated, Ren was kicking ass until literally the last 30 seconds, despite his massive disadvantages.

Darth Thor Senior Member

Anyway I've personally got no particular issue with Finn and Rey giving Ren a duel while he was badly injured.

My issue with that duel is it was just a plot device to force a Lightsaber duel against Ren into the film.

Even with Rey, I'm assuming she's had training as a child. But IF she hasn't then I think that's pretty stupid. Again wasn't just the duel with Ren, but the Jedi Mind trick is a pretty advanced power that definitely needs a good amount of training as far as I've always understood it.

CPT Space Bomb Emperor Doom

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say that anyone who felt like that kind of missed the whole point of Kylo Ren's character. He's not really "The Heavy". If you notice, he's spends most of the movie actually reacting to the heroes. He wants to be like that but he isn't yet.

In terms of his character, it's entirely thematically appropriate for him to end up like that.

Also I think its being overstated, Ren was kicking ass until literally the last 30 seconds, despite his massive disadvantages.

Yah, I'd more say Darth Vader was a "heavy"

Right now, Kylo isn't even a true Sith. He's an emotional trainwreck and was trying to fight with a bowcaster injury.....the same bowcaster that was one-shot killing pretty much everyone else in the movie.

The_Tempest Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say that anyone who felt like that kind of missed the whole point of Kylo Ren's character. He's not really "The Heavy". If you notice, he's spends most of the movie actually reacting to the heroes. He wants to be like that but he isn't yet.

In terms of his character, it's entirely thematically appropriate for him to end up like that.

Also I think its being overstated, Ren was kicking ass until literally the last 30 seconds, despite his massive disadvantages.

Nah, Kylo is most definitely The Heavy for TFA. The notion that he's not "as Heavy" as other, more committed villains doesn't change what his function is for the story.

So when he comes off as ineffective, some people have a problem with it. It's understandable, and hardly a new development for Star Wars in general.

And no, I wouldn't define Kylo's performance as clearly kicking ass.

CPT Space Bomb Emperor Doom

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, Kylo is most definitely The Heavy for TFA. The notion that he's not "as Heavy" as other, more committed villains doesn't change what his function is for the story.
For someone that gets on others for citing their opinion as fact, you seem a bit hypocritical.

quanchi112 Disney

And to me I definitely see Kylo as far darker than Vader. For one

Spoiler:
Kylo resisted Luke himself. Vader was unable to resist Luke. Ben kills his own father as he posed no threat and is there to bring his son home per Leia. Kylo's training isn't even complete yet. He's already eclipsed Vader in terms of evil.

The_Tempest Senior Member
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
For someone that gets on others for citing their opinion as fact, you seem a bit hypocritical.

As NemeBro observed, you're exceptionally whiny. I'm not ascribing objective value to something subjective. Words have definitions and Kylo fits the definition for The Heavy. 👍

BruceSkywalker The BatLord of the Jedi

does anyone think tat Kylo will go completely good by the end of ep 8 or ep 9?

Darth Thor Senior Member
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Went to see this earlier this morning and i'm saddened by how disappointing it was. I'm going to let everything that i saw process in my mind a little more before before i really start commenting.

Now dude before you comment you should know, you're in the Minority. The Critical consensus is that this is THE FILM to Love. And IMDb and Twitter have confirmed that Audiences everywhere Love this too.

Just thought I should explain that so you can think carefully before you make your comment.

Spoiler:
ignore me. I'm just being silly 😛
NemeBro Senior Member
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
A) Most of my arguments stem from logic about The Force. That and a perceived attitude directed towards the fact that Rey was a strong female protagonist.

You're a whiny little crybaby who tried to insinuate people suggesting Rey's abilities are unjustified were being sexist because the idea of someone criticizing your waifu put you in direct emotional peril.

B) Might I have overracted in regards to Rey? Perhaps. But I never told anyone to **** off; as other posters did to me. I'm also not the only one with strong opinions on this movie.

It was only after said emotional shitposting and you suggesting that Star Wars is above the head of Darth Thor that he told you to **** off.

And you know, maybe you should **** off? ****ing off would be a good idea for someone as incredibly whiny as you are.

Look, I got no problem with the few people who don't like the movie. But what I do have a problem with is poor reasoning behind it.

You couldn't spot reason if your face was stapled to a pine tree.

As far as you're concerned Queen *****, you seem to be the one butthurt here.

I'm a heroine of justice, purging this forum of butthurt evil.

NemeBro Senior Member

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As NemeBro observed, you're exceptionally whiny. I'm not ascribing objective value to something subjective. Words have definitions and Kylo fits the definition for The Heavy. 👍
👆

Ren is definitely The Heavy of TFA. I don't know why this whiny guy who I have never heard of before this thread feels the need to jump on the balls of people who say things that make him upset.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Now dude before you comment you should know, you're in the Minority. The Critical consensus is that this is THE FILM to Love. And IMDb and Twitter have confirmed that Audiences everywhere Love this too.

Just thought I should explain that so you can think carefully before you make your comment.

Spoiler:
ignore me. I'm just being silly 😛
Opinions like over everything are all over the map. The perception is positive which I like for future films. Box office dollars matter.

playa1258 Fear is the mind killer

Can't wait to see more Snoke.

wakkawakkawakka Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ren was also
Spoiler:
incredibly emotionally unstable during the fight and he was exhausted (even at the start of the fight he's covered in sweat). Plus he was bleeding steadily and had intentionally opened his wounds. And he didn't seem to be trying to kill Rey but wanted to turn her instead.

Also Rey might have repressed knowledge of the force and training.

All in all, Ren losing that fight makes sense. It was him on his absolute worst day vs Rey at her best and strongly channeling the Force.

Her wrestling the lightsaber might have to do with it calling to her or whatever.


Spoiler:
That's seems reasonable for why Kylo did poorly but my gripe is that the movie didn't do the best job at conveying why Rey did as well as she did. Also there's Ren having enough power to beat Finn and slam Rey into a tree prior to her force awakening. Even if the sequel explains why that's still annoying that the movie couldn't stand on its own for that particular sequence IMO.

CPT Space Bomb Emperor Doom

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As NemeBro observed, you're exceptionally whiny. I'm not ascribing objective value to something subjective. Words have definitions and Kylo fits the definition for The Heavy. 👍
Wrong.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You're a whiny little crybaby who tried to insinuate people suggesting Rey's abilities are unjustified were being sexist because the idea of someone criticizing your waifu put you in direct emotional peril.
Oh no, more insults from you. I think you need more expletives in there as well.

It was only after said emotional shitposting and you suggesting that Star Wars is above the head of Darth Thor that he told you to **** off.
Yes, Darth Thor and I got in a discussion. It's nice to know he has a cohort that will jump to his defense. I have no beef with Darth Thor. You on the other hand I find incredibly annoying.
And you know, maybe you should **** off? ****ing off would be a good idea for someone as incredibly whiny as you are.
You couldn't spot reason if your face was stapled to a pine tree.
You're so eloquent it amazes me. And there are those expletives! Right on mate! You're doing so much better when you curse people on message boards.

I'm a heroine of justice, purging this forum of butthurt evil.
Are you wearing a sheet for a cape in real life?

CPT Space Bomb Emperor Doom

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
does anyone think tat Kylo will go completely good by the end of ep 8 or ep 9?
No. I think he's beyond redeeming. He'll probably die trying to kill someone else. At least, I hope they don't try to redeem him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Opinions like over everything are all over the map. The perception is positive which I like for future films. Box office dollars matter.
Quite true. But hey, the vocal minority hates us for telling the truth.

Bashar Teg Senior Mentat

i think kylo has the hots for rey and perhaps she'll be the catalyst for a possible turn. thats my latest crackpot prophecy.

Robtard Senor Member
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i think kylo has the hots for rey and perhaps she'll be the catalyst for a possible turn. thats my latest crackpot prophecy.

What if they turn out to be cousins?

Bashar Teg Senior Mentat

if they don't turn out to be cousins, i mean. very good chance of that.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by playa1258
Can't wait to see more Snoke.
Look at you coming around when I said this months back. **** Luke but all praise be to Snoke.