Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Started by queeq260 pages

Originally posted by dadudemon
I presented both scenarios you talked about (that you said were contradictions). I showed you where they definitely were not contradictions and had the same exact outcome for Palps.

And why does he need Anakin? The Son of the Force?

Are you really asking why would an evil, power-hungry, very magically powerful, megalomaniac, desired the potentially strongest person in the Force to be his servant?

Your problem with that desire is nonsensical. If it is a problem you have with the Emperor, then you have to also have the same problem with the Original Trilogy because he tried to get Luke to be his servant, as well.

Whenever we argue about how poor you think the PT is, we almost invariably end up where I'm telling you your criticisms equally apply to the OT, which you hold in a much higher regard than the PT. The only thing I desire from these conversations is for you to acknowledge that most of your complaints are not legit and you're holding an unequal standard for the PT that you don't hold for the OT.

So you have a problem with the author keeping a "big reveal" from the audience until the Revenge of the Sith? Why...what? Why is that even remotely close to an issue? Now you have problems with telling stories with lots of foreshadowing, character development, and big reveals?

Do you even buy the arguments you make? I don't believe you actually buy into that argument.

So you hated the big reveal of Vader being Luke's father? Did you hate Leia being Luke's sister? If you hate big reveals, that's fine. I have no right to tell you how you should feel about the stories.

But any fan of Star Wars...ANY fan...knew that Palps was the emperor. It was only a very casual viewer that would be surprised with the "big" reveal.

And how he is pulling the strings? What do you exactly mean? Are you wondering how he has power over people like Nute Gunray? Because, in that case, why does he have power over people like Darth Vader? From whence commeth is power to be over people? Your complaint equally applies to the OT as it does to the PT. Where does any evil dictator get their power over other people? You criticize the story for a very common human theme where dictators rise to power over people.

I don't see a single legitimate complaint, from a logical perspective. You just don't want the story to work. Everything you complain about, here, is either malformed or requires a huge amount of the movie to be ignored. You have a problem with an evil, manipulative, and magically powerful dictator...manipulating people to rise to power. And state, "the movie doesn't tell us what he's doing and what he's trying to achieve." I mean, damn...it literally shows us exactly those two things. He's manipulating the trade federation, the senate, the Jedi, and the Naboo people from the background so he can rise to power. I mean, what else do you want? The movie gives you exactly what you say it doesn't.

"Right before" huh? Yeah, the span of about 1 hour happens in TPM before we get a hint that he's gunning for the Supreme Chancellor's position and when he actually becomes the Supreme Chancellor. The movie is over 2 hours, of course, but it is not "right before" like you suggest.

And you think no shitting out the entirety of a plot, right at the beginning of a film, is bad story telling? Cool. I can't tell you what you should enjoy. But some people enjoy a slow build. They enjoy a bit of intelligent plot and world building as character motivations are slowly revealed and culminate in a story-telling climax.

Honestly, I enjoyed the crap out of TPM's political elements. It was very fun. Due to the time, George Lucas couldn't really shit out his political messages (or anti-political messages, depending on who you talk to) in the OT. He had less restrictions with the PT so his political ideas and anti-political ideas are a lot more fleshed out. He didn't have to hold back. Maybe that's part of why I like the PT, in general, more than the OT...GL didn't have to hold back as much.

You take everything out of context. Just because I feel keeping the identity secret of the big villain and not making clear what he's trying to achieve (despite the fact that all of us fans knew who he was but not what he was doing with taxation of trade routes) doesn't mean I don't like big reveals. But big reveals have to make sense.

Vader revealing himself as Luke's dad was one of the best reveal ever. Leia's sister... meeh... we all know this was convenient short cut to wrap up the OT.

The major difference between you and me is that you seem satisfied how everything has been explained to you in PT. And that things are logical.

My problem is not so much the grand scheme of things. Pappy is by far the best character in the PT, because he LIKES being evil and knows what he wants (even though we as an audience don't always get the steps of his plan). A guy with passion and a goal in life. But... he is the ONLY ONE.

I don't care about explanations and 'logic', I think what Lucas had was deplorably told. A story has to be compelling, characters have to by empathetic And in the case of SW even sympathetic). But the PT has boring and often emotionless characters and plot elements that don't seem to make any sense. Some aren't even relevant (i.e. finding out where the clones came from).

And my biggest bother is that the PT fails to make home runs on the major plot points (Anakin and Padme falling love: horrible. Anakin's fall: terrible. Anakin as a great pilot, hero and best friend of OB1: we never see that - we are only TOLD... ). And when it comes to that, the OT and TFA do a lot better job.

Oh crap Ep. 8 delayed by 6 months!

Think they're going to keep capitalising on the December success.

That and give GOTG2 some breathing room.

I'd rather see it in the summer but I had a feeling this would happen. Oh well I get Star Trek Beyond this summer.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh crap Ep. 8 delayed by 6 months!

Think they're going to keep capitalising on the December success.

I've no problem with the change

30 years into the future, and the First Order are still using TIE fighters and Stormtroopers. You'd expect them to at least have teleportation pods and Terminator-like regenerating bots. But no, they still use spaceships that can only travel at warp speeds. Technology is slow as a snail. Even Star Trek got them beat.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
30 years into the future, and the First Order are still using TIE fighters and Stormtroopers. You'd expect them to at least have teleportation pods and Terminator-like regenerating bots. But no, they still use spaceships that can only travel at warp speeds. Technology is slow as a snail. Even Star Trek got them beat.
Trek absolutely hammers them in technology.

i knew it was too good to be true. 2 star wars films in 6 months.

Hehehe. Well, if it makes the movie better, I can't complain.

Oh and SW was never about technology. That's a Star Trek thing.

Originally posted by queeq

Oh and SW was never about technology. That's a Star Trek thing.

But it is about technology on this forum, Folks like using these things for the verses section.

Originally posted by Kazenji
But it is about technology on this forum,

Pardon? This is a movie discussion forum... not a tech forum.

In general.

Nope.

To you it may not be, To others it does matter.

Doesn't matter. Here we discuss movies. SW is not about technology, in ST it's a vital element to its core philosophy. That's a movie discussion...

I get what your saying

but what i'm getting at is......it is about technology for some folks on KMC.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh crap Ep. 8 delayed by 6 months!

Think they're going to keep capitalising on the December success.

I read somewhere Disney decided to premiere the next Pirates movie for the Dec slot.

Oh God... Another Pirates movie..

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I read somewhere Disney decided to premiere the next Pirates movie for the Dec slot.

Nah Pirates is taking Episode 8's previous slot in May 2016. That's last I read on it anyway.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I get what your saying

but what i'm getting at is......it is about technology for some folks on KMC.

You tell him Kaz, the Chinese are always right.