Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you want to know how horribly and atrociously out of touch with females you are? Tens of millions of American women disagree with you in the most direct way possible. Christian Gray is a genuinely creepy and abusive character. Yet all these women swoon over the idea of that fictional character (and women from all ages: not just middle aged women).

Actual scientific research says otherwise.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/valley-girl-brain/201001/do-girls-really-love-assholes

You don't really read that or got that, I think. Women swoon over Christian Gray for the adventure. Same with the mentioned 'a$$holes'. But... they don't MARRY these guys. If that is the point of that blog. It's hardly scientific, I see no research results, no sources mentioned, no footnotes to publications. There's nothing scientific about the entire bit. It's just a blog. It does refer to another article, but that's about a strong correlation between ' low agreeableness and more infidelity, more sexual partners, and less loyalty to mates.' And that bad boys are all about non-committal.

So back to the PT. This wonderful romance you think is so great is about about Padme picking up another toy boy. This is about marriage between a Jedi Knight and a Senator.

And there we have Padme: a passionless, very cerebral and conscientious woman. Sure, you can make a case that she'd like to have an adventurous date with a just another guy who kills women and children. But you gotta ask yourself: would this woman MARRY him? I say no. It's completely contradictory to her entire character.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well...I mean...that's not true at all. I think you know that. Maybe you mean something like, "Their actions feel linear and their motivations seen simplistic. Their character development leaves something to be desired." I still wouldn't agree but that is more of an opinion than fact.

What I mean is: their actions are often random. They are not directed towards a "desire", a goal they want to achieve. That's not opinion, that's just something that absent on the screen.

I once asked another PT lover what OB1 desire/wants were in TPM. And he came up with a list: to negotiate peace at Naboo, to escape the TF ships, to warn the Naboo, to find out the identity of Maul... But these are not character desires... these are random actions. Often inspired by others.
I don't see what OB1 "wants" in these movies. And his actions don't really disclose it.

Now take Luke in the OT: He wants a more exciting life than being a farm boy. He wants to leave, join the academy, the rebellion, anything... And then OB1 presence gives it direction: "I want to become a Jedi, like my father." And basically, that is what the OT is about. About Luke wanting to become a Jedi like his father. And as we go along with him, we find out what it a) means to be a Jedi (ESB) and b) what "like my father" really means. And as we travel with Luke he changes from a whiny kid to an adult ready to face the demons of his past.

None of that in the PT. This is not opinion. Now, I can see what Anakin wants: "everything, more, power". But he is like that at the beginning of AOTC (suddenly a completely different person than he was in TPM). And he is still like that when he turns to bacon. He DOES a lot of things (jump from flying cars, kill women and children, fight monsters in an arena, fall in love, marry, decapitate a Sith, turn in a Sith, save a Sith). But his actions are not really related to "becoming the greatest Jedi ever'. He either does as he is told (take Padme to Naboo, decapitate a Sith), or does things on impulse (jump from flying cars, leave for Tatooine, try to save OB1, try to save one clone pilot). I don't se him trying to master things that would make him the greatest Jedi. It's all pretty random. And there's no character development, no growth (except for his hair). Ergo, according to all the major story principles: there's no story.

The Jedi: I have no idea what they want. They sit around and talk and talk, and they have no clue what's going on. They say they can't fight wars and yet they DO fight wars. What's all that about?

Padme: I don't know what she really wants. All I see is that other people want to kill her. She hides, she sighs and falls in love with a dictatorship loving Jedi. While she frowns upon those in the Senate that votes away freedom with a thunderous applause...

Palpy... now THAT's a guy I get. He wants power, he moves towards that very consciencely. When things don't go as planned, he changes his actions, comes up with plans B, C, D, anything to achieve his goal:UNIVERSAL POWER... UNLIMITED power. And from a very meek and gentle Senator we see him turn into a mean old b'stard that kills off Jedi and takes over the universe (of course he was already both, but at least we SEE the guy change, in look, in the way he presents himself). He should be the protagonist of the PT, because at least he has SOME kind of arc.

That specific enough for ya?

Now, you're welcome to totally like and swoon over the PT. But at least I hope you see it's not JUST an opinion. It's an opinion based on observation and arguments.

Originally posted by queeq
You don't really read that or got that, I think. Women swoon over Christian Gray for the adventure. Same with the mentioned 'a$$holes'. But... they don't MARRY these guys. If that is the point of that blog. It's hardly scientific, I see no research results, no sources mentioned, no footnotes to publications. There's nothing scientific about the entire bit. It's just a blog. It does refer to another article, but that's about a strong correlation between ' low agreeableness and more infidelity, more sexual partners, and less loyalty to mates.' And that bad boys are all about non-committal.

No, you didn't read or understand what I said (not the other way around). Nor did you read the posting.

It seems you didn't get past the first paragraph. If you had, then you would be been lead to a link which discusses the various studies.

"He discussed the phenomenon of why women fall for "bad boys" or "assholes" and included various research to back such claims."

You tried to pass off Anakin as obsessive and creepy. Your exact words:

"psycho creep"

Mild elements of psychopathy are part of what that research talks about. And by creep, you probably are referring to his obsessiveness and unrelenting pursuit of Padme. The exact things in Christian Gray that appeals to so many women.

As I said, you're clearly out of touch with the reality of what women want. You're also clearly no expert on women. Neither am I, but at least I can admit it and also indicate that painting women with sweeping generalizations is sexist, at best.

Originally posted by queeq
So back to the PT. This wonderful romance you think is so great is not about about Padme picking up another toy boy. This is about marriage between a Jedi Knight and a Senator.

Yeah, you clearly didn't read the article.

And, no, this is about the budding romance between a Padawan and a senator. We were talking about AotC, not RotS.

Originally posted by queeq
And there we have Padme: a passionless, very cerebral and conscientious woman. Sure, you can make a case that she'd like to have an adventurous date with a just another guy who kills women and children. But you gotta ask yourself: would this woman MARRY him? I say no. It's completely contradictory to her entire character.

And yet, actual research says otherwise. Seems many women want to tame these types and also fall in love with these types.

So your complaint is actually, "A realistic and dysfunctional relationship is portrayed in AotC and RotS. I prefer more unrealistic and fairy tale-like romance stories." Okay, if that's your thing, cool. But why make it a big deal by dragging us down a hole of incredulity and denial?

Originally posted by queeq
What I mean is: their actions are often random. They are not directed towards a "desire", a goal they want to achieve. That's not opinion, that's just something that absent on the screen.

No no, that's definitely your opinion. And an opinion which is contradicted by facts that are seen on screen. Facts which I've posted about multiple times, by now. The only thing you can really say, at this point is, "I just didn't like how things played out and I prefer to ignore the actual content of the films to form this opinion."

Originally posted by queeq
I once asked another PT lover what OB1 desire/wants were in TPM. And he came up with a list: to negotiate peace at Naboo, to escape the TF ships, to warn the Naboo, to find out the identity of Maul... But these are not character desires... these are random actions. Often inspired by others.
I don't see what OB1 "wants" in these movies. And his actions don't really disclose it.

You're really forcing that opinion on those items. It's not very appropriate. Those are very specific things. But use the literary analysis part of your brain to actually look for some common themes among those very specific items.

Do you see something akin to, "progressing in the Jedi arts", "upholding justice and protecting the weak", "becoming stronger in The Force"? I mean...those are very obvious things. Those are the things that drive all of those specific things.

But what about the more heartfelt things? Like upholding his master's dying wishes by training and raising Anakin?

Let's face it, you have to be an incredibly stubborn, cold, and unreasonable person to think those character motivations are devoid of human elements.

Originally posted by queeq
Now take Luke in the OT:

Oh boy...here the unabashed soliloquy of "Original Trilogy Dick sucking" comes. I can hardly wait for yet another disseration on why the OT is just so amazing compared to the PT but yet, read more reasons why you should love the PT just the same...

Here we goooo!!!

Originally posted by queeq
He wants a more exciting life than being a farm boy.

Yeah, and Obi Wan continues with the Jedi because he likes it boring, right?

Originally posted by queeq
He wants to leave, join the academy, the rebellion, anything...

You're doing that thing again. Where you vastly underplay character motivations from the PT and way overplay character motivations from the OT to make the OT seem better.

Luke wanting to do those things is very very lightly touched in just a few lines in the film. You make it seem like he's a forlorning, marooned, dessert scavenger.

Maybe you're mixing the Legend's content in with your opinion?

Originally posted by queeq
And then OB1 presence gives it direction: "I want to become a Jedi, like my father." And basically, that is what the OT is about. About Luke wanting to become a Jedi like his father. And as we go along with him, we find out what it a) means to be a Jedi (ESB) and b) what "like my father" really means. And as we travel with Luke he changes from a whiny kid to an adult ready to face the demons of his past.

What the?

No, Luke does not have "demons of his past." The only demons he could really have is the harsh life in the dessert. He easily overcomes those when he leaves.

And wanting to follow the same religious military sect as your father is hardly a grand and stupendous story. You're seriously playing up the OT story into some sort of celestial and grandiose story. Ugh. There is no way to reason with people like you about the OT and PT.

Originally posted by queeq
None of that in the PT.

None of what is in the PT that is in the OT? Because the only thing I see that you really made a point with is that Luke wants to follow the same religious military sect as his father. And of course that's not in the PT: they are different stories.

Originally posted by queeq
This is not opinion.

Well...you could do a much better job of actually making a meaningful and substantive point before you start throwing ideas around that what you're typing out "is not an opinion." Because...really you haven't made any factual points except for the one I listed. And at that, I had to greatly correct the point you were trying to make by removing the absurd amount of useless embellishment and grandiosity.

Originally posted by queeq
Now, I can see what Anakin wants: "everything, more, power".

W-what?

At this point with the myriad of things you just simply don't know about the PT (or have just forgotten), I am fully convinced you didn't really watch the PT. If you did, you saw it once, each, in a drunken stupor.

The number of Anakin's "wants" is huge. There's a lot. And "everything" is not on the list.

Originally posted by queeq
But he is like that at the beginning of AOTC (suddenly a completely different person than he was in TPM).

Yeah, it's like 10 years have passed and he's 18 year old adult, no longer an 8 year old boy. So odd! Right? So strange!

And he's not a completely different person. He's still got that same playful boyish nature about him. Still has an interest in piloting. Still likes to tinker with tech. And...he still has a huge crush on Padme.

Originally posted by queeq
And he is still like that when he turns to bacon.

Okay....

This is ****ing hilarious. I loved this sentence. 😆 😆 😆

I like my Sith Lords crispy.

Originally posted by queeq
He DOES a lot of things (jump from flying cars, kill women and children, fight monsters in an arena, fall in love, marry, decapitate a Sith, turn in a Sith, save a Sith). But his actions are not really related to "becoming the greatest Jedi ever'. He either does as he is told (take Padme to Naboo, decapitate a Sith), or does things on impulse (jump from flying cars, leave for Tatooine, try to save OB1, try to save one clone pilot). I don't se him trying to master things that would make him the greatest Jedi. It's all pretty random. And there's no character development, no growth (except for his hair). Ergo, according to all the major story principles: there's no story.

Let me get this straight...

You're upset because there was no training montage with Anakin at the Academy and throughout his adventures in the galaxy? You seriously needed a training montage as he was trained in the force? I mean...ESB didn't really have one of those, either. We saw Luke progress in the blink of an eye, really. No real training montage. We do see him in training but it is not really a progressing montage.

And...Anakin's adventures are all random? You don't like the missions and assignments he got? Escort, discovery, espionage, etc. Those are just "random missions" to you?

Originally posted by queeq
The Jedi: I have no idea what they want. They sit around and talk and talk, and they have no clue what's going on. They say they can't fight wars and yet they DO fight wars. What's all that about?

So you're again complaining about an obvious plot point that GL wanted you to pick up? He wanted you to see that the Jedi were becoming complacent, arrogant, too powerful, and ineffective (much like the Senate).

Originally posted by queeq
Padme: I don't know what she really wants.

The first we see of her, she is a child monarch. I mean...she literally states the things she wants (hint: it has something to do with saving a shit load of people). But, at that, she was still a child.

Originally posted by queeq
All I see is that other people want to kill her.

Correction: capture her and force her to sign an unreasonable treaty.

And why do you make it seem like we don't know why these people want to capture her?

Originally posted by queeq
She hides, she sighs and falls in love with a dictatorship loving Jedi. While she frowns upon those in the Senate that votes away freedom with a thunderous applause...

Why does she hide? And why do you think she hides (more specifically, why are you calling what she did hiding and what exactly did she do to indicate that she was hiding?).

Palpy... now THAT's a guy I get. He wants power, he moves towards that very consciencely. When things don't go as planned, he changes his actions, comes up with plans B, C, D, anything to achieve his goal:UNIVERSAL POWER... UNLIMITED power. And from a very meek and gentle Senator we see him turn into a mean old b'stard that kills off Jedi and takes over the universe (of course he was already both, but at least we SEE the guy change, in look, in the way he presents himself). He should be the protagonist of the PT, because at least he has SOME kind of arc.

Originally posted by queeq
That specific enough for ya?

Not even close. You just gave me a shower in ambiguous references and ideas. Nothing really concrete. Here's an example of something specific: "Obi Wan becomes determined to kill Darth Maul, despite hanging on for dear life. He waits for the right moment and catches Darth Maul off guard and cuts an overly arrogant Darth maul in half."

That's something specific. That's an example. Saying things like, "Padme hides." I mean, where? When? Which movies? Why are you saying she's hiding?

Originally posted by queeq
Now, you're welcome to totally like and swoon over the PT. But at least I hope you see it's not JUST an opinion. It's an opinion based on observation and arguments.

You're right. My opinion of the PT is based on facts. I appreciate you pointing that out (yes, I'm being cheeky).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh boy...here the unabashed soliloquy of "Original Trilogy Dick sucking" comes. I can hardly wait for yet another disseration on why the OT is just so amazing compared to the PT but yet, read more reasons why you should love the PT just the same...

Too bad you get so childish. You're a PT lover. I'm not. Let's leave it at that.

Explain one thing to me if the PT is the greatest thing ever in film history: why don't we find anything from these movies in popular culture. We still see Vader references, R2 and 3PO references, lightsabers etc. in popular culture. Nothing new from the PT. LOTR left an impression: every one knows about the ring, Gollem, Hobbits etc. I think even BB8 and maybe Kylo Ren will have a lasting impression. Iconography that we'll see coming back everywhere.

When it comes to PT iconography it's surprisingly quiet in popular culture. Maybe because nobody really cares about what happens in the PT?

Originally posted by queeq
Too bad you get so childish. You're a PT lover. I'm not. Let's leave it at that.

I don't understand why you think that's childish especially because it's true. Here, maybe this can help you better understand the point of that statement and lessen any offense you think is present:

I definitely suck the dick of both trilogies. 😐 And it is delicious. 1234

Originally posted by queeq
Explain one thing to me if the PT is the greatest thing ever in film history:

But, see, it isn't. So I can't explain something I don't believe nor do I think anyone believes.

Originally posted by queeq
why don't we find anything from these movies in popular culture.

We do and we did. Tons of it went into popular culture. You weren't asleep during that time period, for sure, so why would you ask such a silly question?

SNL skits? Star Wars boy? Allll the fan-films? The tons of Force Power skits on YouTube? The Saber Duels? The parodies? Lego Star Wars? Minecraft movie? YouTube re-edit joke films? You don't remember any of that?

Originally posted by queeq
We still see Vader references, R2 and 3PO references, lightsabers etc. in popular culture. Nothing new from the PT. LOTR left an impression: every one knows about the ring, Gollem, Hobbits etc. I think even BB8 and maybe Kylo Ren will have a lasting impression. Iconography that we'll see coming back everywhere.

Here's the deal: anytime you see any sort of lightsaber fighting on YouTube or anywhere (besides the actual star wars films), it is almost assuredly not like the OT, it is like the PT. Anytime you see someone using force powers, it is a PT homage, not an OT homage. That shit didn't start popping up on the internet until after TPM. All the same powers were in the PT as the OT and then some.

Here's another deal for you: the OT and the PT are the same storyline and universe. So any pop-culture references you see to Star Wars can and should be contributed to both. You can't pretend that the PT didn't revive Star Wars in the late 1990s and 2000s because it did.

Originally posted by queeq
When it comes to PT iconography it's surprisingly quiet in popular culture. Maybe because nobody really cares about what happens in the PT?

Surprisingly quiet? No. Not at all. Surprisingly still there? Yes, it is. They are still making videos about the PT. I just watched one about TPM on YouTube the other day.

The OT torch was passed to the PT and almost all pop culture references have been mostly due to the PT since a year or two before the TPM released. Now the torch has been passed to the ST and now most pop culture references to Star Wars will be to the ST (in part or in whole).

But all of them are respectful homages to the whole thing: all of Star Wars.

My position is not that the PT is better than everything. My position is that Star Wars is one of the greatest and most entertaining creations in human history. Criticisms I levy against the PT get levied against the OT (depending on the issue). I don't suffer from blankie syndrome where I think the OT is this amazing cinematic masterpiece of perfection. It's not. Neither is the PT. And, so far, the ST definitely is not, either.

As we've discussed before, the same criticisms you levy against the PT should be applied to the OT. You hated the politics. Well, too bad: politics were an integral part of the OT. You hated the rushed romance in AotC. Well, too bad, the romance was shoe-horned into the OT like a messy afterthought (and was one the criticisms of Star Wars: a very stupid geek's vision of how romance works...and part of why geek culture is seen as relationship illiterate). You didn't like the poor acting in the PT. Well, too bad: the acting is definitely far worse in the OT (but there are excellent moments of acting in each trilogy, imo). You didn't like the over-the-top lightsaber duels of the PT...well, I'll give you that one. haha I loved them. But I do agree that the Saber duel between Vader and Luke in the OT, in RotJ, was much more realistic...but I enjoyed the final duel between Obi and Anakin the most.

Anyway, these are my opinions. I'm generally of the opinion that the hate against the PT is the same hate that should be applied to the OT but people are too blinded with rose colored glasses to admit it. I love them both: flaws and all.

Here's something, though: the acting is far better in the ST than the PT and OT. It's got that going for it, which is nice. Perhaps the ST will be seen as the Trilogy of good acting?

I actually prefer the OT acting to anyone in the other films with a few exceptions.

And once again instead of talking about this stunningly original flick, we're talking about the PT. Almost as if TFA is sorta forgettable.

And yet you're still saltier than the sea over it, so I guess it's not all that forgettable, huh?

DDM is on a tear. It always boils down to opinion though and anyone thinking it doesn't is just fooling themselves.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet you're still saltier than the sea over it, so I guess it's not all that forgettable, huh?

That would make TPM the most memorable movie in nerd history then. I'm talking about a film within 2 months of release, in January, a historically dry period. Not much to talk about.

Sure, in that everyone remembers how much they hate it. 👆

And the 250 page thread definitely suggests there wasn't much to talk about, you are so right. People aren't discussing it because most liked it and that doesn't lead to much debate. "It was great." "I agree" "Ok!" The PT keeps getting talking about in the same way an ulcer keeps getting tongued. It's not a positive to have people constantly discussing the exact degree of shit they were.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, in that everyone remembers how much they hate it. 👆

And the 250 page thread definitely suggests there wasn't much to talk about, you are so right. People aren't discussing it because most liked it and that doesn't lead to much debate. The PT keeps getting talking about in the same way an ulcer keeps getting tongued. It's not a positive to have people constantly discussing the exact degree of shit they were.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, in that everyone remembers how much they hate it. 👆

And the 250 page thread definitely suggests there wasn't much to talk about, you are so right. People aren't discussing it because most liked it and that doesn't lead to much debate. "It was great." "I agree" "Ok!" The PT keeps getting talking about in the same way an ulcer keeps getting tongued. It's not a positive to have people constantly discussing the exact degree of shit they were.

Unless they liked it.

That's cute. A lot more of those pages were spent talking about what the film would be like rather than what the film was. 150 pages or so.

You also need not debate the quality of a product to have interesting discussion about it. Favorite scenes, favorite shots, looking at what this film does new(which is something you look at when discussing sequels), talking about how this would not only be good for Star Wars but cinema as a whole. Instead almost all discussion comes back to the PT like it should matter one bit in the judgement of this new film.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Unless they liked it.

That's cute. A lot more of those pages were spent talking about what the film would be like rather than what the film was. 150 pages or so.

You also need not debate the quality of a product to have interesting discussion about it. Favorite scenes, favorite shots, looking at what this film does new(which is something you look at when discussing sequels), talking about how this would not only be good for Star Wars but cinema as a whole. Instead almost all discussion comes back to the PT like it should matter one bit in the judgement of this new film.

Some idiots liking it is what fuels discussion, nice to see you noticed.

Like in most threads. Discussion petering out after a few months is to be expected. In fact I'd say that this thread is astoundingly healthy for our forum. AoU, Spectre, Jurassic World; those threads didn't do nearly as well as this one has.

We already had those discussions. Unless you think we're getting a constant influx of new people to restart them, I don't know what you expect. That there's plenty to criticize about the PT as opposed to this film isn't surprising or notable. Nor is the impact it's terribleness had on people.

But seriously, if you think the movie is so forgettable you have my permission to forget about it now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
DDM is on a tear. It always boils down to opinion though and anyone thinking it doesn't is just fooling themselves.

👍👍👍👍

It does come down to opinion and DDM is smiting the opposition.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
👍👍👍👍

It does come down to opinion and DDM is smiting the opposition.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Anyway, these are my opinions. I'm generally of the opinion that the hate against the PT is the same hate that should be applied to the OT but people are too blinded with rose colored glasses to admit it. I love them both: flaws and all.

Here's something, though: the acting is far better in the ST than the PT and OT. It's got that going for it, which is nice. Perhaps the ST will be seen as the Trilogy of good acting?

Well, I find you kinda bypassing all the criticisms. Of course the OT isn't perfect (Well ESB comes very close). But the OT left a lasting impression among fans and non-fans. Frankly, I can't say the same about the PT.

I care that not only fans like SW, but that all movie lovers like it. And I think this is where the PT falls short. And it shows by not being referred to much in popular culture (i'm not talking fan based stuff, they'll even glorify Jar Jar because it's SW).

And lastly, I hope you at least see and understand WHY some of us have serious problems with the narrative of the PT. That it's not some kind of blind hate, as you seem to think.

The major difference between the two trilogies is, for me:

OT - simple, basic hero's journey fairy tale, a fun space adventure with likeable characters
PT - trying to be something complex, with unclear heroes, not very likeable characters, not always much fun (lots of talking) and muddled storyline...

Now, like it all you want. I have films I like very much, that most people hate. David Lynch's Dune for instance. But all the criticism people have for Dune is correct. I can agree with almost everything. But... I do find some unique qualities in this movie that does make it special to me personally. But as a movie it is heavily flawed. I will not deny that for a moment.

It took me several years actually to come to grips with how flawed the PT is. I think the first time was when I watched TPM with my kids, when they were between 6-12... And as I was watching it, often watching a movie with other people, makes me see a film (or even one of my own shows or documentaries) through their eyes. And I thought: what is this? Taxation of trade routes? Lots of talking in the Senate about committees and votes of no confidence? Weird stuff about midichlorians? More talking? Luckily there was some flashy action but I thought: this is a) not for kids and b) not much fun.
I mean they were happy with the lightsabers, the pod race and the laserguns... but boy... what a weird movie. AOTC: if I asked what it was about or what was going on, the didn't have clue, but it looked flashy. ROTS was a lot more entertaining and made more sense to them, but then there was the excessive violence.

We go from poop jokes (you know, for kids) to decapitations and burning people to crisp... It's quite an unbalanced series.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Instead almost all discussion comes back to the PT like it should matter one bit in the judgement of this new film.

Partly that is because comparisons are drawn, by everyone. Between TFA and the PT ("This is so much worse, we miss Lucas" or "Good thing Lucas is not involved, it's like SW again"😉. As they were between the PT and the OT.

Maybe it's a generational thing. Maybe it's an age thing as well. Some people who prefer the PT tell me I like the OT better because I saw it as a kid. And I did. And that I can't handle the new approach.

Now we have TFA and the some people who saw the PT as kids don't like TFA. And people who grew up with the OT like TFA, because that one is so much based on the OT.

Personally, I don't think age has everything to do with it. Like one cannot appreciate new movies when you get older.
I think Transformers is absolute crap. But I love The Avengers and Ant-Man! And I can tell you why.
I thought Spectre was a disappointment (my fav: casino Royale) but MI: Rogue Nation was superb! LOTR is outstanding, but The Hobbit is a major disappointment (despite two excellent scenes with Gollum and Smaug).
It doesn't even have to do with genre. But I do see a difference. For some people it's all about CGI and action and totally wicked FX... for me the story has to make sense, has to capture and move me. If it takes CGI to do that, fine. But CGI cannot make up with weak storytelling.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That there's plenty to criticize about the PT as opposed to this film isn't surprising or notable.

You should really stop trying to pass off your opinion as fact?

TFA's just as subjective viewing as the PT so there's plenty to criticise about it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html