Itachi vs The Gokage

Wait...what? Why was this thread revived again?

Anyway Itachi could beat any of the Kage individually however he doesn't have the means to take them all on at once. Even as an Edo, he's still imited to the restrictions of his own jutsu: ex. direct eye contact.

On top of that Itachi's basic sharingan can be outright avoided by either Gaara, Mei, or A. And Itachi still doesn't have an answer to the combo tech.

You could pick which Kage he take out as an Edo: I can see him taking out at leats 1 Kage. However Itachi outright looses if he's mortal.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wait...what? Why was this thread revived again?

Anyway Itachi could beat any of the Kage individually however he doesn't have the means to take them all on at once. Even as an Edo, he's still imited to the restrictions of his own jutsu: ex. direct eye contact.

On top of that Itachi's basic sharingan can be outright avoided by either Gaara, Mei, or A. And Itachi still doesn't have an answer to the combo tech.

You could pick which Kage he take out as an Edo: I can see him taking out at leats 1 Kage. However Itachi outright looses if he's mortal.

I agree these are the kage hes fighting not some random chunnin ninja lol

Originally posted by chasedown
The amount of exhaustion a living itachi experienced against sasuke who was much weaker than the kage at that point says otherwise.

Whose to say raikage cant blitz him while using amaterasu or tsuchikage atomically dismantling the fire. Especially if itachi cant see because the hidden mist.

Lol these are the kage were talking about not some simple chunnin. An onslaught of continous attacks could prove to be more than enough for a living itachi. Yes itachi has alot of strong mangekyou attacks but each of those attacks greatly exaust him as well as may leave him blind. He cant contiously spam them like he could in edo form

1. He still used it MULTIPLE times, to cover a small mountain sized area.

2. The fact that none of them can avoid Itachi's genjutsu that captures them all at the same time simply by him pointing, is what says that. 👆

3. Obviously. However, this is Itachi we're talking about. Someone who was kage level by the time he was seven years old. It doesn't matter. You don't understand that Itachi only needs to use ONE mangekyo technique to win, which he is EASILY AND CASUALLY capable of doing. He doesn't need to spam them, when he can win with the simple genjutsu/Ammy combo that they have NO answer to.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wait...what? Why was this thread revived again?

Anyway Itachi could beat any of the Kage individually however he doesn't have the means to take them all on at once. Even as an Edo, he's still imited to the restrictions of his own jutsu: ex. direct eye contact.

On top of that Itachi's basic sharingan can be outright avoided by either Gaara, Mei, or A. And Itachi still doesn't have an answer to the combo tech.

You could pick which Kage he take out as an Edo: I can see him taking out at leats 1 Kage. However Itachi outright looses if he's mortal.

1. Because.

2. Direct eye contact?

Pretty sure I debunked that argument a long time ago.

3. Gaara can avoid Itachi's genjutsu? Based on? Mei has no defense either. A fell to Madara's genjutsu, the same Madara who was stated to be lesser than Itachi in terms of genjutsu.

Now, give me A SINGLE example of why they can get past his Genjutsu/Ammy combo. How can they get past genjutsu that he can activate by pointing on multiple people, and then Amaterasu that he can use instantly on a small mountain sized area while they're under genjutsu? They SIMPLY CAN'T. There's a reason that only another Uchiha can beat Itachi.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Because.

2. Direct eye contact?

Pretty sure I debunked that argument a long time ago.

3. Gaara can avoid Itachi's genjutsu? Based on? Mei has no defense either. A fell to Madara's genjutsu, the same Madara who was stated to be lesser than Itachi in terms of genjutsu.

Now, give me A SINGLE example of why they can get past his Genjutsu/Ammy combo. How can they get past genjutsu that he can activate by pointing on multiple people, and then Amaterasu that he can use instantly on a small mountain sized area while they're under genjutsu? They SIMPLY [B]CAN'T. There's a reason that only another Uchiha can beat Itachi. [/B]

Justus like Tsukuyomi require direct eye contact to work. If it didn't he wouldn't have had to pull Izanami out of his ass to beat Kabuto. Amateratsu requires the target to be in view in order to hit it. Susanoo requires both eyes in order to be activated.

That scan is an example of Itachi's basic stuff, which as I said doesn't work if someone's present to break you out of it. That's a staple in Naruto lore that's been consistent even in Part 1. Oh and then there's this:
Apparently a smack to the face is all you need to break out of it.

Mei has Hidden Mist which can negate Sharingan enhanced vision. Gaara has a 3rd eye on top of flight. A is fast enough to avoid eye contact when mobile.

Except Kabuto countered every "non-Izanami" justsu Itachi had in his fight.

The fact of the matter is during his fight with sasuke itachi was exhausted and the 5 kage are stronger than sasuke was at that point. Itachi would be overwhelmed fight all five of them at once

Its absurd to think basic genjutsu is enough to beat all of them when they have counters against suck weak genjutsu.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Justus like Tsukuyomi require direct eye contact to work. If it didn't he wouldn't have had to pull Izanami out of his ass to beat Kabuto. Amateratsu requires the target to be in view in order to hit it. Susanoo requires both eyes in order to be activated.

That scan is an example of Itachi's basic stuff, which as I said doesn't work if someone's present to break you out of it. That's a staple in Naruto lore that's been consistent even in Part 1. Oh and then there's this:
Apparently a smack to the face is all you need to break out of it.

Mei has Hidden Mist which can negate Sharingan enhanced vision. Gaara has a 3rd eye on top of flight. A is fast enough to avoid eye contact when mobile.

Except Kabuto countered every "non-Izanami" justsu Itachi had in his fight.

When did I ever say, or even insinuate, that Itachi needed Tsukiyomi to win this?

That scan supports that Itachi doesn't need eye contact to use genjutsu. Plus, a jinchuriki with a biju has more chakra than ANY of the kage. If they can't break his base genjutsu, then Raikage is completely hopeless. Anyway though, this scan will put you to rest.

Ao said Itachi could use genjutsu on not THAT many people at once from such a distance. The distance was a country away, and on an entire block of the shinobi force, meaning 2,500 ninja. If he had to stress that Itachi couldn't put them ALL under genjutsu, then he obviously could have put a lot of them under it. With the lowest low-balling we can give, it's safe to assume that he could EASILY cast it on five people from close up. From there, all he has to do is finish them with amaterasu, because they can't dodge it while under genjutsu. The only one's with feasible ways to survive are Tsunade and Gaara. Tsunade by mitotic regeneration, which will only prolong her inevitable death, and Gaara by covering himself in a sand shield right when the fight starts, and flying into the air. Either way, he still can't win this, so... Itachi. Solo's.

Apparently, you're neglecting this scan because you know that I've won. With all the kage under genjutsu at once, who could break them out of it anyways? Even if they could, it would still be a cake walk for Itachi to take them out one after the other while healthy, simply with an Amaterasu for whoever's under the genjutsu, and whoever's trying to break them out of it. 👆

Kabuto had to blind himself, and become a sage just to avoid one of Itachi's abilities. Either way, Izanami is still an Uchiha jutsu, so you bringing that up is completely redundant.

Originally posted by chasedown
The fact of the matter is during his fight with sasuke itachi was exhausted and the 5 kage are stronger than sasuke was at that point. Itachi would be overwhelmed fight all five of them at once

Its absurd to think basic genjutsu is enough to beat all of them when they have counters against suck weak genjutsu.

As it states

how do you base a fight entirely on speculation. For all we know it itachi can only put two ppl under genjutsu at once. and such basic gejutsu can easily be avoided anyway. your deeply underestimating the kage

if mei gets off hidden mist jutsu itachi has no way of placing them all under genjutsu at once. weve seen that it does help against it.

itachi exausted himself against sasuke. The 5 kage together are much greater threat than sasuke was at that point.

Originally posted by chasedown
As it states. I am an ignorant dumb ass that has never read Naruto, therefor assume that Itachi lost to Sasuke because he was unable to spam his mangekyo techniques. I would never admit that Obito specifically stated that Itachi was on his deathbed years ago, and that he had to take a bunch of pills so that he didn't die from some disease that he had. Nah, Sasuke totally would have beaten Itachi with no disease, because Sasuke is gawd.

Fixed it for ya'.

sasuke was still exhausted insulting ppl doesnt change that fact.

Originally posted by yungz22
how do you base a fight entirely on speculation. For all we know it itachi can only put two ppl under genjutsu at once. and such basic gejutsu can easily be avoided anyway. your deeply underestimating the kage

if mei gets off hidden mist jutsu itachi has no way of placing them all under genjutsu at once. weve seen that it does help against it.

itachi exausted himself against sasuke. The 5 kage together are much greater threat than sasuke was at that point.

"can be easily avoided anyway", is NOT proof. Show ONE example of them breaking an Itachi level genjutsu while it's being used on them all at once, and I'll submit. You're deeply underestimating Itachi. He can use genjutsu on nearly 2,500 people from a country away with a gesture. He can use it on the gokage while sleeping. 👆

So it's a race between who can cast their jutsu first. This just became the question of "can Mei cast a multi-handsign jutsu before Itachi can point in their general direction?", which has a very obvious answer. No.

Itachi was on his deathbed, and didn't want to beat Sasuke. That is like the tenth time I've debunked that stupid argument. Stop making it, dumb ass.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"can be easily avoided anyway", is NOT proof. Show ONE example of them breaking an Itachi level genjutsu while it's being used on them all at once, and I'll submit. You're deeply underestimating Itachi. He can use genjutsu on nearly 2,500 people from a country away with a gesture. He can use it on the gokage while sleeping. 👆

So it's a race between who can cast their jutsu first. This just became the question of "can Mei cast a multi-handsign jutsu before Itachi can point in their general direction?", which has a very obvious answer. No.

Itachi was on his deathbed, and didn't want to beat Sasuke. That is like the tenth time I've debunked that stupid argument. Stop making it, dumb ass.

lol the panel just stated that itachi cant use genjutsu on that many ppl at once. weve never seen him do it so theres no telling how many ppl he can cast under genjutsu at once. Theres no number so its pure speculation.

As a matter of fact itachi probably cant use genutsu on more than one person at once because hes never shown us it. heres an analogy i cant juggle. so if someone sees another person juggling 10 balls and then says therers no way that i can do it theyd still be right. because i never could juggle in the first place. so saying it would be impossible to control "that many" still could mean that he can only cast genjutsu on one person.

i meant to say if somone says i cant juggle "that many" theyd still be right

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
When did I ever say, or even insinuate, that Itachi needed Tsukiyomi to win this?

That scan supports that Itachi doesn't need eye contact to use genjutsu. Plus, a jinchuriki with a biju has more chakra than ANY of the kage. If they can't break his base genjutsu, then Raikage is completely hopeless. Anyway though, this scan will put you to rest.

Ao said Itachi could use genjutsu on not THAT many people at once from such a distance. The distance was a country away, and on an entire block of the shinobi force, meaning 2,500 ninja. If he had to stress that Itachi couldn't put them ALL under genjutsu, then he obviously could have put a lot of them under it. With the lowest low-balling we can give, it's safe to assume that he could EASILY cast it on five people from close up. From there, all he has to do is finish them with amaterasu, because they can't dodge it while under genjutsu. The only one's with feasible ways to survive are Tsunade and Gaara. Tsunade by mitotic regeneration, which will only prolong her inevitable death, and Gaara by covering himself in a sand shield right when the fight starts, and flying into the air. Either way, he still can't win this, so... Itachi. Solo's.

Apparently, you're neglecting this scan because you know that I've won. With all the kage under genjutsu at once, who could break them out of it anyways? Even if they could, it would still be a cake walk for Itachi to take them out one after the other while healthy, simply with an Amaterasu for whoever's under the genjutsu, and whoever's trying to break them out of it. 👆

Kabuto had to blind himself, and become a sage just to avoid one of Itachi's abilities. Either way, Izanami is still an Uchiha jutsu, so you bringing that up is completely redundant.

I was stressing my original point that Itachi is still limited to the restrictions of his own justsu even if he is an Edo.

Not sure what you're arguing here. The panel I showed has Sakura smacking Naruto out of Itachi's genjustsu. Showing that Itachi's basic stuff can be broken out of if someone else is there to do it. Furthermore it is interesting to point out that out of the 4 people Itachi could've gotten with that justu, only Naruto was significantly affected. So in a way you bringing that scan up is actually lowballing Itachi.

Um...exactly how is Itachi going to get them all under genjustu at once? As shown in the scan before only Naruto couldn't break out of the genjustu trap w/o help. Furthermore if the Kages could avoid being genjustu'd by 25 Madara's, its safe to say they can avoid one Itachi.

The point of the Kabuto example was to show that Itachi can be bested by other people than Uchiha's. Also Kabuto had successful ways to avoid & counter all 3 main MS techs so I don't know why you're trying to lampshade that. Izanami was an asspull through and through but its canon so oh well.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I was stressing my original point that Itachi is still limited to the restrictions of his own justsu even if he is an Edo.

Not sure what you're arguing here. The panel I showed has Sakura smacking Naruto out of Itachi's genjustsu. Showing that Itachi's basic stuff can be broken out of if someone else is there to do it. Furthermore it is interesting to point out that out of the 4 people Itachi could've gotten with that justu, only Naruto was significantly affected. So in a way you bringing that scan up is actually lowballing Itachi.

Um...exactly how is Itachi going to get them all under genjustu at once? As shown in the scan before only Naruto couldn't break out of the genjustu trap w/o help. Furthermore if the Kages could avoid being genjustu'd by 25 Madara's, its safe to say they can avoid one Itachi.

The point of the Kabuto example was to show that Itachi can be bested by other people than Uchiha's. Also Kabuto had successful ways to avoid & counter all 3 main MS techs so I don't know why you're trying to lampshade that. Izanami was an asspull through and through but its canon so oh well.

Yea he had the perfect opportunity to cast more than one person under genjutsu at that point yet he didnt

Originally posted by yungz22
lol the panel just stated that itachi cant use genjutsu on that many ppl at once. weve never seen him do it so theres no telling how many ppl he can cast under genjutsu at once. Theres no number so its pure speculation.

As a matter of fact itachi probably cant use genutsu on more than one person at once because hes never shown us it. heres an analogy i cant juggle. so if someone sees another person juggling 10 balls and then says therers no way that i can do it theyd still be right. because i never could juggle in the first place. so saying it would be impossible to control "that many" still could mean that he can only cast genjutsu on one person.

Yeah, but the fact of the matter still remains that he didn't completely shoot down that argument, because he knew Itachi could use it on almost that many people. If he could use it on only one person at a time, he would have said, "Itachi can't use it on multiple people, so it can't be him.", but he instead said, "He can't use it on all those people.", which means he can use it on nearly as many. You obviously can't speak english very well, if this simple concept is that foreign to you.

As a matter of fact, he is the best genjutsu user in the ninja world other than Shisui, and we've seen weaker genjutsu users cast genjutsu on multiple people at once. Orochimaru and the second Mizukage, for example. Oro cast it on Sasuke and Sakura at the same time with a passing glance, someone who was one-panneled by Itachi's casual genjutsu. The second Mizukage caugth hundreds of ninja in his genjutsu, and even Ao said that the best genjutsu using Mizukage(the third) couldn't compare to Itachi.

Your analogy is stupid. If someone said that you can't juggle that many balls, while knowing you couldn't juggle, then they would be making a redundant point for no reason. They would simply say you can't juggle. Shikaku and Ao have seen Itachi's abilities, as they insinuated by giving knowledge on him in the first place. Ao said he couldn't control all those ninja. He didn't say that he could only control one of them. This means he can, AT THE VERY LEAST, control two people at once. It takes two people to break one person out of his genjutsu. That means they could only break one out at a time, and would still be completely vulnerable to amaterasu, while getting the sole fighter left not counter-acting genjutsu to fight Itachi 1 on 1, which would be over with a quick Totsuka seal. This leaves two people under genjutsu, and two to heal them. All Itachi has to do is vaporize the one that they don't try to break out of genjutsu, and then re-capture two of the others in it, and kill the remaining one with a casual seal. It's. That. Simple. Even if he didn't have the ability to seal all five at once, he can still defeat all five in a few short movements.

👆

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I was stressing my original point that Itachi is still limited to the restrictions of his own justsu even if he is an Edo.

Not sure what you're arguing here. The panel I showed has Sakura smacking Naruto out of Itachi's genjustsu. Showing that Itachi's basic stuff can be broken out of if someone else is there to do it. Furthermore it is interesting to point out that out of the 4 people Itachi could've gotten with that justu, only Naruto was significantly affected. So in a way you bringing that scan up is actually lowballing Itachi.

Um...exactly how is Itachi going to get them all under genjustu at once? As shown in the scan before only Naruto couldn't break out of the genjustu trap w/o help. Furthermore if the Kages could avoid being genjustu'd by 25 Madara's, its safe to say they can avoid one Itachi.

The point of the Kabuto example was to show that Itachi can be bested by other people than Uchiha's. Also Kabuto had successful ways to avoid & counter all 3 main MS techs so I don't know why you're trying to lampshade that. Izanami was an asspull through and through but its canon so oh well.

So I'll stress my original point again too. Those restrictions even, are something that the kage still can't get past.

Uh, no.

You're neglecting the fact that Naruto was already out of the genjutsu when Sakura slapped him. See my last post.

As also shown in that scan, Itachi could fight while using genjutsu on someone else, it takes two people to break the genjutsu, Itachi can use it on three times the people because that clone was 30% of his abilities, and this is all from base finger genjutsu. Again, see my previous post. The kage avoided mangekyo eye-contact genjutsu from 5 Madara's each. It's a little easier to avoid making eye-contact with five people than it is to be pointed in the direction of by a single person. Either way, Itachi is taking at least two out with his base genjutsu, possibly three, and presumably all five. See my previous post to see how he stomps in that fight.

So... What you're saying is that you had no point to begin with, by bringing up Kabuto, right?

Your agrument is based on speculation that someone may or may not be able to do something. Unless it is confirmed that itachi can cast more then one person under genjutsu the arguements strength is really weak. Itachi has had multiple chances throughout the series to cast genjutsu on more than one person at a time both in part 1 and part 2 yet weve never seen him do it. What hes shown us however is that he can cast it on one person and hes shown us that multiple times.

We dont even know if said jutsu requires hand seals or not or whether prep time is required if he uses sharingan to do it or not or any other factor that jutsus require. All of these things are something that cant be answered.

In the context its used "That many" can mean anywhere from zero and up. Lets say he can do it to more than one person whose to say that the number is only two at a time.

There is no concrete evidence that state ls itachi can cast genjutsu on more than one person. Arguments should never based on pure speculation.

Also its like waka said the 5 kage managed to avoid genjutsu from 25 madara im sure they could avoid madara

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So I'll stress my original point again too. Those restrictions even, are something that the kage still can't get past.

Uh, no.

You're neglecting the fact that Naruto was already out of the genjutsu when Sakura slapped him. See my last post.

As also shown in that scan, Itachi could fight while using genjutsu on someone else, it takes two people to break the genjutsu, Itachi can use it on three times the people because that clone was 30% of his abilities, and this is all from base finger genjutsu. Again, see my previous post. The kage avoided mangekyo eye-contact genjutsu from 5 Madara's each. It's a little easier to avoid making eye-contact with five people than it is to be pointed in the direction of by a single person. Either way, Itachi is taking at least two out with his base genjutsu, possibly three, and presumably all five. See my previous post to see how he stomps in that fight.

So... What you're saying is that you had no point to begin with, by bringing up Kabuto, right?

How so? A can move faster than the Sharingan can track him, Mei's hidden mist can prevent Itachi from gaining a visual of the Kages, and Gaara has flight and a 3rd eye he can use to remove the risk of direct eye contact. He can also block Amateratsu.

Still don't understand what you're trying to say. Also according to that scan Sakura was the one to smack Naruto out of the genjutsu, in the previous chapter he was still under it.

Oh and even if that were the case, its not BTW, you do realize that by Naruto already being out the genjutsu implies that he got out of it on his own: which is low-balling Itachi's genjutsu even further.

You made a statement earlier that only an Uchiha could beat Itachi: which the series itself proves incorrect. My Kabuto example shows that Itachi can be bested by someone who isn't an Uchiha.