Polite:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpg
Mind control (or at least, not at 100%):
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpg
He wasn't REALLY hurt:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpg
Not too bad considering Orion was bloodlusted and out to kill him:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Polite:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6o0jtt.jpgMind control (or at least, not at 100%):
http://oi59.tinypic.com/50l5y1.jpgHe wasn't REALLY hurt:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/213ge9g.jpgNot too bad considering Orion was bloodlusted and out to kill him:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/29fz6ro.jpg
He was hiding inside Superman, not controlling him.
Lol...him blitz punching Orion and hitting Orion harder than he's ever been hit is polite?
He was laid on the ground bleeding. Wonder Woman had to help him up on his feet and he even said he was embarrassed (at his condition of course).
So that last heat vision attack that Orion withstood without a scratch is Superman going all out?
Originally posted by carver9
He was hiding inside Superman, not controlling him.Lol...him blitz punching Orion and hitting Orion harder than he's ever been hit is polite?
He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite. Not sure why you're arguing this? And what does Orion being it harder than ever before have to do with anything? It just means that Orion's never fought anyone on his own level before.
If you punch me, and its the hardest I've ever been hit.....does that automatically mean you were going all out? What if I've only ever been sparring with handicapped toddlers? See what I'm getting at?
He was laid on the ground bleeding. Wonder Woman had to help him out and he even said he was embarrassed (at his condition of course).
So that last heat vision attack that Orion withstood without a scratch is Superman going all out?
He can't be going all out - not when there's Hammond hiding out there....I mean, we've had mod rulings that his performance in Sacrifice aren't really usable, because there was mind phuckery going on....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite.
Not sure why you're arguing this?
Exactly.
Why should we be debating whether the man is polite or not?
A display of good manners is nearly always a good thing:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He stated, clear as possible, that he was being polite. Not sure why you're arguing this? And what does Orion being it harder than ever before have to do with anything? It just means that Orion's never fought anyone on his own level before.If you punch me, and its the hardest I've ever been hit.....does that automatically mean you were going all out? What if I've only ever been sparring with handicapped toddlers? See what I'm getting at?
He also said he was mostly OK. But you're glossing over that?He can't be going all out - not when there's Hammond hiding out there....I mean, we've had mod rulings that his performance in Sacrifice aren't really usable, because there was mind phuckery going on.... [/B]
I disagree with his showing of politeness. That's all. Him pounding on Orion isnt a sign of being polite.
Ok means 'not 100%'. I can take the words ok in a lot of routes thinking about it.
I can't believe you Dark. Now you're using the Mind controlled argument when, not so long ago, in the Hulk and Hyperion thread, you tried using a mind controlled Hulk and Hyperion fight 'against' the Hulk. I'm confused.
Originally posted by carver9
I can't believe you carver. Now you're using the Mind controlled argument when, not so long ago, in the Hulk and Hyperion thread, you tried using a mind controlled Hulk and Hyperion fight 'for' the Hulk. I'm confused.
Fixed.
😠 😠 😠
Besides, when Hyperion landed the final punch (the one that reverted him back) he wasn't under mind control.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fixed.
😠 😠 😠Besides, when Hyperion landed the final punch (the one that reverted him back) he wasn't under mind control.
Lol...you brought it up. I never said anything about Hulk being mind controlled. I'm just surprised you are using this as an argument when you was all for it yesterday.
Hyperion didn't revert Hulk.
I brought it up in the context of Superman's battle performance, Superman had earlier been 'seeing things' that weren't there etc, for example.
In the other thread, had I said - Hyperion was outfighting Hulk, as shown with their fight when they were with Ex Nihilo - then you would have a case. but I didn't. I brought it up because it showed that Hyperion was strong enough to knock Hulk out, which reverts him back to Banner. This has been seen multiple times with Indestructible Hulk - the undersea monster knocked him out, the explosion with Iron Man etc.
But an argument for another thread.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I brought it up in the context of Superman's battle performance, Superman had earlier been 'seeing things' that weren't there etc, for example.In the other thread, had I said - Hyperion was outfighting Hulk, as shown with their fight when they were with Ex Nihilo - then you would have a case. but I didn't. I brought it up because it showed that Hyperion was strong enough to knock Hulk out, which reverts him back to Banner. This has been seen multiple times with Indestructible Hulk - the undersea monster knocked him out, the explosion with Iron Man etc.
But an argument for another thread.
How did he knock Hulk out hut Banner was still conscious and 100%? Usually when Hulk is knocked out, even during the times you've brought up, he reverts to Banner (or sometimes stay in Hulk form) and he is koed. That wasn't the case here. That scene was obvious Dark. You're making something difficult than what it is. He reverted back to Hulk as soon as she lost her connection/mind control with him which is the reason why Hyperion punches before that didn't revert Hulk back.
It's worth pointing out, if I've not done so in this thread yet, that physical strength is not the same as invulnerability.
Compared to Kryptonians and the like, Wonder Woman's durability is crap.
Compared to Batman? She's tough.
Compared to Ultraman or J.Q. Average Kryptonian? Not so much.
Powerful strikes or collisions, for instance, can do damage to her sometimes even she's blocking because of this lack of K-level invulnerability.
Wondy's lost to a lot of people comic narration and feats explicitly say she's stronger than throughout her history as a result.
Easiest example to give:
Diana versus Cheetah, Wonder Woman v2 #9
http://oi57.tinypic.com/k2b5et.jpg
Meanwhile, noticing who's featured above, it's also worth pointing out that, despite overt aggressive displays,
even the current version of Wonder Woman is wont to be conservative with her power, holding back her full strength in many encounters.
This is explicitly stated in the panel below; later I'll probably show where Diana held back her full power in her 2nd bout
with the goddess Artemis to spare casualties among nearby onlookers.
Surprised teammates ponder DCnU Wondy's skirmish with Cheetah
http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zq7wc5.jpg
Diana versus Doomsday
(Impactbreak. Non-invulnerable bones shatter.)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/110he9s.jpg
Diana versus Apollo
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2z4zkld.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/akkcr7.jpg
pushy Cheetah is pushy dotcom
Re: Re: Strength Ranking:DCNU
Originally posted by bluewaterrider3. Apollo
-- apparent peer or superior to goddess sister Artemis
-- beat cuffed Wonder Woman5. Wonder Woman (cuffed)
-- outmatched by the god Apollo
-- overpowers Faora
-- holds own with Zod7. Superman
-- has his arm broken casually by Zod, though Zod does not do the same against Wonder Woman
http://oi62.tinypic.com/29usvn7.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/6y16b8.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e1d8ow.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/209r4ed.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n0qvl.jpg
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x573ps.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/27xpfcz.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/8voj8l.jpg
Originally posted by h1a8Strength is very straight forward and can be easily measured or gauged by almost anyone.
Not necessarily true.
Originally posted by h1a8
Who wins a fight can have very little or nothing to do with physical strength.
This much is true.
Of course, the flip side is that who wins in a fight can have a great deal to do with physical strength.
Certain fights suggest physical strength is the reason for a victor's victory quite powerfully, after all.
Example:
Diana versus Hercules
http://oi61.tinypic.com/wqzc5g.jpg
The kind of combat above measures strength pretty directly, and is more or less
a hand grip/body strength test.
Notice the parallel in the fight against Faora.
This looks nearly EXACTLY like that kind of grip strength test,
with Faora struggling to control Wonder Woman's sword.
Interestingly, Faora is using 2 hands for this (you can tell because both hands shown grasping the hilt of the sword have gloves on)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cgfwqx.jpg
while we've only on this page seen Wonder Woman use one.
Diana's position, which went from being directly in front of Faora to Faora's side,
implies that she's using her other arm to surround and pseudo squeeze Faora, much as someone would when trying to get in close and put a blade to someone's throat.
Heavy implications are there, though not conclusive.
Note that at this point Faora is virtually untouched; she doesn't seem to have been weakened visibly in any way by taking a blow, suffering a cramp, etcetera.
Of course, after she loses the grappling contest for Wondy's sword,
Faora's scalded by the blade,
and Diana takes the opportunity to take the fight to Zod.
Diana holds her own with Zod close-fighting, though Clark will get summarily wrecked trying the same thing, and when Diana goes back to Faora ...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/73nkb5.jpg
... we see Diana seem to get the better of Faora in another grappling contest,
apparently successfully getting a choke on Faora started at the end of it,
hold Faora at bay while negotiating with Zod for Clark,
and lightly toss Faora away.
Absolutely 100% iron-clad conclusive?
No.
But a very strong suggestion of where any strength advantage might lie between these two.
Maybe something will happen next month to put the issue in doubt, or even turn the debate in Faora's favor.
In fact, given how grudgingly DC likes to give Wondy good showings, historically, I half-expect that WILL happen.
But for the present there's good reason to think Diana is superior to Faora in strength (though probably not NEARLY as tough).
And examining all the other evidence we have to this point, good reason to think Diana's actually stronger than Clark, too.
bronzebrawn
