Originally posted by Nephthys
The difference is that you have nothing suggesting that the length of the war actually would make them better fighters, other than your opinion that it would.
Likewise it is your opinion that the likes of the Knight and the Consular are reflective of the entire order, that the rediscovered knowledge makes the order better fighters etc etc.
We are both dealing with our opinions when it comes to how we apply the facts.
They die eventually, but in war they die alot, without being able to pass on their skills to as many other Jedi as they could have during peace. Especially since they're busy fighting instead of teaching. A few individuals improve, but the whole suffers. Or the ones who have the potential to be great are killed before they have the opportunity to mature into that status. So what actually occurs is that great Jedi die and future great Jedi are killed before their prime. Sure, the strongest have a better chance of surviving, but the strongest are also the ones who are targeted in war. You have failed to rebut the fact that this is what actually happens in every war we've seen.
But the order wouldn't have to be reliant on a few individuals to pass on knowledge. Ideally, the Jedi would have to balance things like how long they keep Jedi learners before sending them off to the war, how many Jedi they should have to teach the learners instead of fighting the war, how many Jedi should be kept from the war for organisational/leadership purposes, how many Jedi healers there should be, Jeid diplomacy missions, preprations for any potential contingencies, and these are all key to fighting a war in an effective and yet sustainable way, and the point is that the Jedi would have had a lot of time to perfect whatever strategy they would use.
Jedi in peacetime may be given more time to reach their potential, yes, but Jedi in wartime are trained specifically for war, more urgently but not at the expense of having holes in their training, and then receive the very best training of all - experience.
Effectively what this means is that a great Jedi in peacetime will be trained in a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant to war, and never truly know what it means to fight other Force Users on a large scale. A great Jedi in wartime will be trained exclusively to wage war, will be pushed to reach his potential a lot sooner, and will receive the benefits of fighting masses of Sith Lords over his lifetime, and will be protected by a combination of survival of the fittest/the will of the force. If anything, a Jedi in wartime will also have the advantage of reaching the absolute peak of his technical skill and power in the Force, before his body starts to get physically frail, which is something that often happens with Force Users, and can make the difference in a fight.
And yeah, the very special ones survive (because of plot, not the will of the Force), but the order was hardly improved by having Orgus Din die, nor with having Yoda survive Order 66. The Order as a whole suffered from those losses.
ToR war hasn't been around long enough for the likes of Orgus to be replaced.
Obviously if a side loses a war they will naturally be weaker.
But in a sustainable long term war, it's all cyclical, and Jedi get to their primes quickly and die to be replaced by the next generation.
Thats just not true. Strong Jedi are not always replaced. Sometimes they just die and their apprentice dies too. And no-one replaces them.
On average, they usually will.
And you become finely tuned to the Force through intense study. Jedi do not get more powerful through only knowing basic techniques. That's retarded. Advanced lightsaber forms and techniques, higher Force knowledge, esoteric techniques. These are the things that make a Jedi better. You need the higher level stuff to become actually good at the basic stuff. Knowledge of how to manipulate the Force increases your capacity with it. TRying to do only the simple stuff without understanding anything about the Force doesn't work.
Basic techniques AND core skills, which everyone will be taught in. What matters is being taught TK, and then being taught how to meditate on the Force, improve your Force sense, improve your control etc..
What doesn't matter is knowing morichro or some other random technique and thinking it will make your force push more powerful.
Darth Malgus became greatly more powerful through reaching an intimate understanding of the Dark Side. A Swtor-era Jedi Master meditated for years in isolation on Hoth and achieved greater power than he ever had through basic training. This is how the Force canonically works.
Which is through basic techniques and teachings.
Thats been retconned now. Ancient Sith used lightsabers and fought Sith quite a bit. Tulak Hord used lightsabers and killed thousands of Jedi.Also, Tulak Hord is a ****ing beast now, based on info from Swtor. Dude pulled capital ships from the sky and slew a thousand of Jedi in a single battle, single-handedly and fed on their deaths.
Makes you reconsider Hoth being so badass, huh. 😉
Certainly makes me reconsider Yoda even being remotely powerful.
Yeah, since preparing for war is a completely positive improvement,
Preparing for it only takes you so far. It's similar to the difference between sparring and real combat.
whilst fighting it is extremely costly and depletes your resources. Also you're wrong in that second thing. The Sith Empire employs numerous Sith Sorcerers who use extremely potent arcane techniques in battle. And Jedi Consulars likewise employ advanced lightside attacks and techniques in a similar way. The more arcane stuff is a rarity [b]in the NSW, not in every era. Advanced techniques are rather common in Vitiates Empire.
maybe in gameplay mechanics bro. In proper media depictions it's usually simply stuff like lightning and TK.
It is a cool story. Swtor is cool.Thats Banes opinion. Its seems to be wrong considering how powerful the Sith in Swtor are. Darth Nox could beat Hoth and Raskta at the same time.
The Jedi are highlighted as being the tipping point for the war, and also that standard troops can't really stand up to the Sith.
I'd imagine Bane probably knew what he was talking about, given that it formed the basis for his rule of two, which was credited in prophecy to making the Sith stronger.
That's one way to look at it. I prefer to interpret it as Nyriss simply being that good.I highly doubt the Sith would hear or sense the Exile fighting through the temple and not alert the others and go and attack her en mass. Remember that the Triumvirate Sith are specifically drawn to powerful Jedi, so I imagine that every Sith in the temple would be drawn to her.
You're seriously overstating Hoth's 'feat'. Here is the entire exchange:
"A volley of blasterfire ripped through his lines, taking down those Padawans too inexperienced to deflect the shots. A second volley tore through the melee. The bolts ricocheted wildly as Sith and Jedi alike batted them aside, doing little real harm but adding to the chaos. Lord Hoth stood in the thickest of the fighting, hewing down foes foolish enough to come in range of his fierce weapon. His nostrils were filled with the greasy-sweet stench of charred flesh, and a wall of bodies was mounting around him. And still they kept coming, swarming over him like carrion beetles on a fresh kill, seeking to drag him down by sheer numbers.
Pernicar vanished beneath the sea of enemies, and Hoth redoubled his efforts to reach his fallen friend. He was unstoppable in his fury, like the devastating storms of the Maw itself. When he reached him, Pernicar was already dead. Just as the rest of them soon would be."
Forgive me if I don't swoon. Ven Zallow and Malgus do basically the same thing in Deception, except better.
I'm referring to another part of the book.
No, he's pretty powerful and skilled even as of RotS. A great recent feat was him telekinetically manhandling Darth Maul and Savage Opress at the same time while giggling.
lol
This is supposed to imress me?