Originally posted by Naija boy
I'm fairly sure the writer intention was to pretty clearly communicate that Umar was pretending...I can double check but I'm pretty sure that the was the crux of that incident. Moreover I'm not suggesting Umar is above KT..at all. She was simply a character that pak used as a reference point to show hulks jump in power.Basing their power level off of what was indicated in the comic is all that makes sense as they are plot device characters whose power levels vary tremendously. With characters as hugely variable as mindless ones, contextual evidence is key. They have varied between class 100 characters who have been mentioned and shown as being nigh indestructible, to characters that have been able to be killed easily by peak humans. In that comic, they were portrayed in a way that Umar couldn't survive their combined force. That is actually a throwback to their classic days where their combined numbers were threats to even Umar and Dormammu. Any other form of evidence in the form of other showings is automatically inferior and quite frankly irrelevant in determining the power level they were being portrayed at by the writer in that specific comic....since we know that they are ridiculously variable. The same logic does NOT naturally apply to Umar since she is not a plot device character in the same vein as the mindless ones or with the same level of comical variability.
And Umar using a forcefield to survive a single attack that could kill all the mindless ones without injury doesn't present some sort of conundrum. It was made clear in the comic that she wouldn't survive the mindless being released. Surviving a prolonged assault against race of mindless ones =/= surviving one attack from the hulk. If anything what it suggests is that Umar didn't have the firepower to put down the totality of the mindless ones ( which has precedent in regards to some of their previous history against she and Dormmy) in the same vein hulk did prior to their sustained attack putting her down. That's not a knock against hulks feat at all.
The mindless ones feat is one that simply establishes the scale of power that Hulk was intended to be operating at in that arc and gave the writer a chance to directly compare hulks power in that arc with another considerably powerful character that would typically be levels above him: Umar. That comparison is clear as day and is what makes it very impressive. However it does not for instance validate simplistic claims and reasoning such as Hulk>Umar and therefore Hulk>king Thor ..or that KT would be killed by the mindless ones etc..since we would first have to establish that Umar was greater than KT at all for that to have any basis..
I agree that the Arm feat was very impressive also as was the feat in general. Pak did nearly everything to make sure it could stand on its own merit and not need any embellishment to make it sound any more impressive.
That said it still doesn't mean hulk would defeat KT or even come close really
Maybe, maybe not. However, her later plan was revealed to be a half truth, not specifically if Jane was right or not.
You might not be, but that's clearly not the intent here. As well if we're harkening back to "silver age", and using statements exclusively, then Umar is equal to Dormammu who is equal to Odin. Which kind of pits her and King Thor on equal terms. Your welcome Carver.
Mindless Ones don't vary in canon though (outside the Invincible one, and I think the Nova ones were changed). They are as much static as Thing is. The only thing that changes is their showings. A more apt comparison would be Rhino.
They are always presented as an overwhelming force though no matter what they're up against.
And speaking of throwbacks, they were repeatedly brought up to be from the Faltine Dimension in Peter Porker's Birthday (where they got smashed again, repeatedly by pretty much every hero there). Which is a throwback to when they overwhelmed the king of that dimension and Dormammu/Umar had to seal them away.
Well, I don't think showings can be inferior to statements, so there's that, nor should we ignore showings in favor of a statement. Plus, after Foom initially got knocked down, he was ragestomping all over everywhere in the presence of the MOs. Also, Hulk beheaded one earlier too, mind you, it's Hulk with an axe, so that's not bad.
She effortlessly tanked an attack that destroyed all of the Mindless Ones there. 😬
Unless the Mindless Ones can output more power than what was displayed there, it's a pretty big mozza ball.
I agree with that reasoning, but again, you and I both know that's not what Carver is thinking when such things are brought up. And the other... being. You aren't defending say, rational fans when you say things like that.
I think people are assuming their durability/power stacked together just because they as an army could take down Umar. You throw enough Iron Mans for example against Odin and they'd eventually win too. It doesn't mean lesser forces can't take down said army if they use a big enough shot.
As well on that note, just because they as a full army could overwhelm Umar, that doesn't mean we get to ignore a large part of their "modern" history in lesser groups. Each individual doesn't suddenly get bumped up in durability or strength just because of a statement. For example, the Annihilation Wave ransacked the universe, but each "individual" was completely unimpressive. Collective effort. Back in the day a single Mindless One was one to wrote your nephew Bok Choy about. But currently they have like what, one good showing for a single Mindless One? All they are is a decent army now.
On it's own, it's a bunch of canon fodder to me. However, add that up with the Ched/planet shredding, and it's a sexy fable. I haven't as much issue with Carver really thinking Hulk beats King Thor, as the main reason him thinking so is just because of the MOs.