Count Dooku and Mace Windu Vs Darth Sion and Meetra Surik(The Exile)

Considering that Sion could rise from otherwise fatal injuries and that he wasn't a significant part of said wars, it's not really that shocking that he survived.

I'd say Sion is something like Savage Opress in terms of raw saber combat, maybe a bit less.

It's interesting how much evidence is largely just absorbed and then IMO is still the case. This is because we have almost no objective benchmarks here.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'd say Sion is something like Savage Opress in terms of raw saber combat, maybe a bit less.

Honestly, as 'clumsy' as Savage is alleged to be, dude has held his own against some of the premiere duelists of his day: Anakin, Obi-Wan, Adi Gallia, Plo Koon, etc.

His technique is clearly nowhere near as refined, but dude has some serious natural talent.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's interesting how much evidence is largely just absorbed and then IMO is still the case. This is because we have almost no objective benchmarks here.

I mean it sucks but the KOTOR II cast got shafted in terms of their power level with the Revan novel. We can only roughly assume how powerful Sion is. I think the Exile is roughly around the level of Kenobi, and Sion is roughly the level of Savage.

Revan is likely above Tyranus in the force but firmly below him in Sabers (lol Niman would get utterly demolished by Makashi).

I personally rank them like so: Yoda/Sidious/Vitiate > Revan > Dooku/Mace/Nyriss > Obi-Wan

Don't ask me where to put Maul and Anakin.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Honestly, as 'clumsy' as Savage is alleged to be, dude has held his own against some of the premiere duelists of his day: Anakin, Obi-Wan, Adi Gallia, Plo Koon, etc.

His technique is clearly nowhere near as refined, but dude has some serious natural talent.

Mostly because of the monstrous power Talzin gave him. And for how impressive he is, I don't get why Talzin isn't just churning out brutes like him. It didn't seem to be something she can't replicate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Mostly because of the monstrous power Talzin gave him. And for how impressive he is, I don't get why Talzin isn't just churning out brutes like him. It didn't seem to be something she can't replicate.

Because plot and reasons, bro.

This is typical of Star Wars to leave such glaring questions unanswered. Especially since Talzin's ambitions are confirmed to be in direct opposition to the Jedi and the Sith, especially as of season 6.

Lame.

She's trying to take them down? Seriously? She isn't doing a very good job.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lame.

She's trying to take them down? Seriously? She isn't doing a very good job.

Spoiler:
She leeches living Force energy from individuals in season 6 and, in conjunction with her own dark magicks, intends to become more powerful than any Jedi or Sith. Mace interrupts the ritual, they fight, she vanishes.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I personally rank them like so: Yoda/Sidious/Vitiate > Revan > Dooku/Mace/Nyriss > Obi-Wan

Don't ask me where to put Maul and Anakin.

Tier 0: Top Tier
Yoda
Sidious
Vitiate
Nihilus

Tier 1: Low-Top Tier
HoT
Revan
Malgus

Tier 2: High Tier
Tyranus
Mace
Nyriss
Anakin

Tier 3:
Kreia
Kenobi
Maul

Tier 4:
Savage
Sion

Its becoming too hard to do tiers anymore imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its becoming too hard to do tiers anymore imo.

True, especially because I think that Revan is more powerful than Dooku, but in a straight fight Dooku would win. Why? Niman gets plowed by Makashi.

Even Exar Kun's Niman?

I tend to judge lightsaber fights by speed, strength, force power and technical skill as opposed to lightsaber form rock paper scissors. With exceptions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even Exar Kun's Niman?

I tend to judge lightsaber fights by speed, strength, force power and technical skill as opposed to lightsaber form rock paper scissors. With exceptions.

The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force says it would be nigh impossible for a Niman user to defeat a Makashi practitioner. And its not like Exar Kun outclasses Dooku in raw bladework.

I don't take that seriously. If Sidious was using Niman against Dooku, do you think Sidious wouldn't win? Cuz I think he'd still beat Dooku's shit in.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't take that seriously. If Sidious was using Niman against Dooku, do you think Sidious wouldn't win? Cuz I think he'd still beat Dooku's shit in.

No I don't think Sidious would win.
What makes Sidious so ridiculously OP in saber combat is that he uses all 7 in conjunction, combined with his speed makes him utterly unpredictable. You have to be Yoda (who also has a mastery of the 7 forms) to truly counter him.

Neph, I don't take YOU seriously.

#burn

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I don't think Sidious would win.
What makes Sidious so ridiculously OP in saber combat is that he uses all 7 in conjunction, combined with his speed makes him utterly unpredictable. You have to be Yoda (who also has a mastery of the 7 forms) to truly counter him.

Pfft, well you can think whatever you want I guess. What makes Sidious so OP is his ridiculous power, which gives him an edge in speed, stellar combat senses and reflexes and the strength to hold back Savage Opress with one hand. He could beat Dooku using any form imo. Even Luke's spazzed out Boo Radley with a baseball bat style.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Neph, I don't take YOU seriously.

#burn

Originally posted by Nephthys

oh snap!

Pfft, well you can think whatever you want I guess. What makes Sidious so OP is his ridiculous power, which gives him an edge in speed, stellar combat senses and reflexes and the strength to hold back Savage Opress with one hand. He could beat Dooku using any form imo. Even Luke's spazzed out Boo Radley with a baseball bat style.

Not true. If you give someone with Sidious' power and speed but no saber training he's going to get curb stomped in a raw saber match with someone like Dooku. Sidious is amazing because his mastery of the saber is unreal.