Originally posted by Astor Ebligis3. Mace and Dooku are really not that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Sion has achieved far greater heights than almost anyone, let alone these two, and Meetra's exploits in KotOR 2 was the stuff of legends. Team 1 is extremely outmatched here. It's only movie bias which would lead people to think otherwise.
I wouldn't go that far Astor, I mean sure he's the only one to ever achieve that 'cheating death' ability, but to claim that Mace and Dooku aren't impressive is a pretty big claim, considering Mace was able to defeat Sidious while the other three jedi master died. then there's Dooku who was able to hold his own against yoda(for a while until he retreated) how can you say they're 'Not all that impressive'?
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not really considering his only other feat is ambushing Lonna Vash.
This makes no sense brah.
A ridiculous notion considering it takes power for him to regen.
1. First I've heard of this. Prove it.
2. Even if it takes power, the fact that he can regenerate would still mean that his defensive priorities would not be as great as they would otherwise be.
Not really because she defeated Nihilus while he was at his weakness, talked Sion into accepting death, and...Kriea doesn't really have the chops to suggest she's all that amazing.
Yes she does. She's demonstrated far more power than either Dooku or Mace. Owning a trio of Jedi Council Members, and literally killing a dozen Sith Assassins by walking past them namely. Dooku Force owning one or 2 Jedi at a time, and having to set it up with lightsaber strikes usually is nowhere near as impressive.
As DarthAnt said she solod the Malachor V Academy, plus all the other shit she does in Kotor 2.
I have brought this up before. I was countered; he stated multiple times he was willing to kill her because he loves her.
What he states =/= what he truly feels, even if he was lying to himself. You can't make a solid case that he wouldn't have held back slightly against her. And seeing as, as I said, he doesn't have the same defensive prioirites as others, basically the fight with Meetra proves nothing.
Yeah Sion hasn't survived getting his head chopped off so that doesn't really matter to me.
1. In which case Shatterpoint would hardly be effective as it's hardly a precice measure,
2. This is an unsupported assumption. Meetra felled him numerous times and was lead to believe that he was invincible, as did many others. Hard to argue that they wouldn't have tried something as obvious as chopping his head off.
Wow. I won't even justify that with a response.
Good thing if we look at the quality of your actual responses.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I wouldn't go that far Astor, I mean sure he's the only one to ever achieve that 'cheating death' ability, but to claim that Mace and Dooku aren't impressive is a pretty big claim, considering Mace was able to defeat Sidious while the other three jedi master died. then there's Dooku who was able to hold his own against yoda(for a while until he retreated) how can you say they're 'Not all that impressive'?
1. I believe the Sith Triumverate > Yoda and Sidious anyway.
2. There is a hell of a lot of evidence that Sidious held back against Mace.
3. Likewise the narration states that Yoda hel back against Dooku.
4. Dooku was hardly Yoda's equal simply because he survived a duel with him for about 30 seconds. In Dark Rendesvous with the advantage of being on a world steeped in the dark side, Dooku was still not a match for Yoda, and recently in the cartoon got completely owned by Sidious from across the Galaxy.
5. So imo the evidence suggests that Mace and Dooku are nowhere near as good as Yoda and Sidious, and to reiterate, I don't think Yoda or Sidious are as good as Traya or Sion in the first place.
6. I would conclude that Windu and Dooku are simply the standard #3/#4 type guys you would get in any era, impressive to be sure, but hardly groundbreaking. Sion actually reached an unimaginably great height that very few ever came close to, whether it was DE Sids, Krayt, Exar Kun, Simus etc.
Stated in DR I think, not sure but somewhere Yoda does state that he didn't have it in him to defeat his former pupil. Either way in light of their battle in DR and Sids owning him from across the galaxy I don't think you can argue that he's anywhere near as good as Yoda or Sidious.
Simply put the idea that Mace or especially Dooku are all that great in the grand scheme of things is nonsense imo, whereas someone like Sion clearly is.
It's a massive advantage, and it speaks to him having qualities that enabled him to succeed where so many others failed, such as DE Sids and virtually everyone that we know of.
That he doesn't have that many feats doesn't mean we dismiss him, when the one feat he does have is one of the most amazing ones ever.
Mace's shatterpoint should and can take down Sion's regen.He should easily be able to focus and utilize on all of Sion's cracks. Especially with the aid of Dooku's lightning, which I recall has burned people from ash. Sion has his limitations, and some things, despite his anger, he just can't handle, ie powerful enough lightning or shatterpoint.
when the one feat he does have is one of the most amazing ones ever.
Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
It's a massive advantage, and it speaks to him having qualities that enabled him to succeed where so many others failed, such as DE Sids and virtually everyone that we know of.That he doesn't have that many feats doesn't mean we dismiss him, when the one feat he does have is one of the most amazing ones ever.
Or a natural affinity for that particular skill. Which is something certain Force adepts just possess. Just because he's better at one aspect of the Force doesn't mean he's stellar with other aspects.
Its not that great.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mostly because of the monstrous power Talzin gave him. And for how impressive he is, I don't get why Talzin isn't just churning out brutes like him. It didn't seem to be something she can't replicate.
The Nightsisters have actually done this before though. Talzin mentions in Book of the Sith that "through the magicks of a the Fanged God, a warrior can be transformed into an avatar of primal anger."
I imagine that the reason they don't do it more is because they pretty much have the Nightbrothers enslaved. I doubt they'd want to give them the strength to revolt.
Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
This makes no sense brah.
He is virtually featless kid.
1. First I've heard of this. Prove it.2. Even if it takes power, the fact that he can regenerate would still mean that his defensive priorities would not be as great as they would otherwise be.
KOTOR campaign guide states it requires a ridiculous amount of concentration. The only reason he even regenerated as much as he did vs. the Exile is because he was on a DS Nexus which is irrelevant in this matchup.
Yes she does. She's demonstrated far more power than either Dooku or Mace. Owning a trio of Jedi Council Members, and literally killing a dozen Sith Assassins by walking past them namely. Dooku Force owning one or 2 Jedi at a time, and having to set it up with lightsaber strikes usually is nowhere near as impressive.
Dooku owned Ventress with a finger, dominated three of the nightsisters finest while drugged and intoxicated, KO'd Sora Bulq with ease, owned Ventress with a gesture, wounded the most powerful Master in the Old Jedi Order's history. Want more? Said Jedi Master hailed him as the order's greatest student.
As DarthAnt said she solod the Malachor V Academy, plus all the other shit she does in Kotor 2.
Gameplay is n-canon. She could have stealthed her way by as well.
What he states =/= what he truly feels, even if he was lying to himself. You can't make a solid case that he wouldn't have held back slightly against her. And seeing as, as I said, he doesn't have the same defensive prioirites as others, basically the fight with Meetra proves nothing.
Prove he was holding back. He said he would kill her. So that seems to show me that he wasn't.
1. In which case Shatterpoint would hardly be effective as it's hardly a precice measure.
No limits fallacy. Sion has shown no way of surviving decapitation.
2. This is an unsupported assumption. Meetra felled him numerous times and was lead to believe that he was invincible, as did many others. Hard to argue that they wouldn't have tried something as obvious as chopping his head off.
Its not really hard to argue. In game at no point has Sion survived getting his head chopped off, hell the Exile never even goes for cutting his arm off.
Good thing if we look at the quality of your actual responses.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He is virtually featless kid.KOTOR campaign guide states it requires a ridiculous amount of concentration. The only reason he even regenerated as much as he did vs. the Exile is because he was on a DS Nexus which is irrelevant in this matchup.
I can't believe I forgot about that, god I feel like a dumbass.
Lord Stark is right, when Meetra fought him on korriban the only reason he didn't go down was because of the DS Nexus, its also one of the reasons he managed to catch Lonna Vash off guard. honestly with every thing Stark has said I've begun to lean more towards team 1, I mean while Sion is undoubtedly a great combatant and duelist without the DS Nexus he really isn't much(even Kreia says so) so while he may stand on even ground with Dooku or Mace eventually either of them would overwhelm Sion and defeat him, leaving Meetra to fend off two of the most powerful swordsmen of their time, and while she may be a excellent duelist I highly doubt she would able to defeat both Dooku and Mace, even with her Force Enlightenment ability. Even with that said, I still think she could've defeated Dooku or Mace(with a whole lot of effort) had I partnered her with someone like Anakin, Yoda, Revan or Luke.