Superman VS Thanos: A TEST OF STRENGTH

Originally posted by Stoic
Nope the first time Superman fought Lobo is when Lobo was contracted to kill Superman, and the only reason that he did not was because he was too drunk, and pretty much forgot what it was that he was supposed to do. Superman even tried to escape by jumping into a suit of armor. This did him no good. We see stalemate differently. To me it means that they were deadlocked, which was clearly no the case, but yes, I'm done with the cross over talk.

Good for you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then its good that you can't use JLA/Avengers as proof in this forum. But if we're using crossovers, Lobo stalemated Thanos in h2h.

Superman has oneshotted Lobo in the past when he went all out and knocked out him and Mon-El together.

Which comic is this btw?

Originally posted by Epicurus
I don't see how that is a stalemate. In your own scan, we see Lobo getting swatted away in the matter of a single panel.

with energy attack but not physically. physically lobo was trading hits with him. thanos started a physical fight with lobo we see them trading blows, then we see thanos hit lobo with energy blast which means he couldnt overpower lobo physically so he resorted to energy blasts.

^Okay...but I don't see how this is supposed to be indisputable proof of Superman being superior to Thanos in terms physical strength. Especially when one takes into consideration the forum rules pertaining to crossovers and sh1t.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I don't see how that is a stalemate. In your own scan, we see Lobo getting swatted away in the matter of a single panel.

Which comic is this btw?

Originally posted by Epicurus
^Okay...but I don't see how this is supposed to be indisputable proof of Superman being superior to Thanos in terms physical strength. Especially when one takes into consideration the forum rules pertaining to crossovers and sh1t.

Guys, no crossovers.

Lmao at desperate Abhi.

Superman got beat down by She Hulk and Iron Man , while Thanos was manhandling Captain Marvel , Wonder Woman and a top GL

No more personal comments.

Now that I've said it (even though you all should know better), the next time it happens, it will be considered to be ignoring a mod.

So don't do it.

Originally posted by tkitna
Flying to the sun is faster then just thinking? If these mental blocks are in place like everybody says, why doesn't Jonn just take them away when they are losing a battle? Oh I forgot, Superman is immune to telepathy right?

God I hate Superman. DC comes up with the dumbest crap ever just to wank him. He still isn't beating Thanos though. Two different levels.

This is why superman has mental blocks on a subconcious level.

1. Superman can go around normal people and have to keep reminding himself to be careful, oh i must not shake his hand too hard, my god, have to be careful not to accidently bump someone and kill them. If i sneeze i could kill a lot of people, i have to be careful. I dont want to kill this weaker foe, i have to be careful. He would have to do this 24/7 and every second of his life..OR...

2. He could sub-counciously regulate his powers so that he would not have to do the first one. Thats why batman said that superman over the years learned to do this. ( that thing was attacking them on a sub-concious level and thus was able to hurt superman because superman was sub-conciously surpressing his powers. thats why batman said superman was doing it to himself. Superman has went all-out plenty of time against many strong foes and friends and remained in the same strength class, he holds back against things or people that are not in his class or fear of killing them UNTIL he finds out that they can lay him out and take it or is just as strong and durable as him, he DOES NOT rise above them by not holding back, he then realize in order to have a chance to beat them, he HAS to go all out. Sometimes he wins, Sometimes he gets beat and needs help.

😂

This is pure comedy. You know what? I'm going to nuke this thread with scans.

The ONLY time in his life he ever used his full strength against another living being prior to OWAW was when he punched the above top tier DoS Doomsday to death in moments Superman 152, by Jeph Loeb:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-15.jpg

When he stops holding back and starts accessing his suppressed power, his stats increase:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-01.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-02.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-04.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-05.jpg

Why? Because Superman's power-levels are controlled, regulated by, and fluctuate based on his mind:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-07.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1999%20Dec-Feb%20No%20Limits%20Superman%20152-153/?action=view&current=Supermanv2152-09.jpg

His powers are SO deeply controlled by his mind, that when he has amnesia and forgets he has superpowers--his powers are suppressed by his mind -- Adventures of Superman 416 by Marv Wolfman:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p05.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/02-%20Adventures%20of%20Superman%20426/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman426p06.jpg

When he believes that he is a top tier, his strength fluctuates saed on his mind allowing his access to his innate powers and his stats increase back to standard levels Action Comics 586 by John Byrne:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_03.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_04.jpg

Darkseid/Desaad notes what happened:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_06.jpg

Darkseid/Desaad uses his mental powers to unlock Superman back to to his standard levels(not that he was capped to strength lower than Ds himself at the time):

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_07.jpg

Sueprman power fluctuates back due to his mind releasing his power:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_08.jpg

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20May%20Legends%20Apokolips%20Saga/03%20Action%20Comics%20586/?action=view&current=ac_586_09.jpg

"Superman's powers require his full, active mind to drive them, and with his brain clouded by amnesia he's was like a powerful vehicle of war, capable of smashing a city, but without a skilled operator at the controls."
Now how does John Byrne, the WRITER of the above scene and the primary creator of the Post-Crisis Superman, DEFINE how Superman's strength-levels work?:

"What's his limit? Whatever he believes it to be."

And yes, he SPECIFICALLY wrote this in the comics -- Superman's power-levels are dependent upon his willpower:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1987%20FebAction%20585%20-powered%20by%20lifeforce%20and%20will/?action=view&current=ac_585_09.jpg

For those who would BULLSHIT there way around the above and claim that this was 'metaphorical', even readers in 1988 clearly saw what was meant--Superman's powers are dependent upon his mind check the above left letter from The Shadow #16 1988:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1988%20The%20Shadow%2016%20-%20supermans%20power%20based%20on%20will/?action=view&current=29-Letters.jpg

No, That instance proves how Superman's OWN SUBCONSCIOUS MIND assessed his OWN fully unleashed relative power levels--and his mind DEFINES his power-levels. Remember--that was the first time we saw a Superman would was presented as a peer to Darkseid in combat.

WRONG:
1) Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare, Mark Waid and Fabian Niciezia - this storyline is what lead into Morrison's JLA:

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1996%20-%20JLA%20-%20%20A%20Midsummers%20Nightmare/?action=view&current=JusticeLeague-AMidsummersNightmarepg103-SupesNoLimitations.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1996%20-%20JLA%20-%20%20A%20Midsummers%20Nightmare/?action=view&current=JusticeLeague-AMidsummersNightmarepg104-SupesNoLimitations.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1996%20-%20JLA%20-%20%20A%20Midsummers%20Nightmare/?action=view&current=JusticeLeague-AMidsummersNightmarepg110-SupesNoLimitations.jpg

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/2001%20-%20Arkham%20Asylum%20-%20Emperor%20Joker/?action=view&current=arkhamasylumAdventuresOfSuperman582p19.jpg

"I don't know where that burst of strength came from! I didn't know I had that kind of power!'

So yeah, its not an isolated instance. Anybody still likes to deny it?

Originally posted by JBL
Nice point. Jonn knows that supermans so called mental blocks are just superman holding back to keep from hurting normal or weaker people and that superman can stop holding back on his own against the likes of his peers. He did it against BA and nothing changed strength wise because he was not concerned about not hurting BA who could and did match superman.

This is why superman has mental blocks on a subconcious level.

1. Superman can go around normal people and have to keep reminding himself to be careful, oh i must not shake his hand too hard, my god, have to be careful not to accidently bump someone and kill them. If i sneeze i could kill a lot of people, i have to be careful. I dont want to kill this weaker foe, i have to be careful. He would have to do this 24/7 and every second of his life..OR...

2. He could sub-counciously regulate his powers so that he would not have to do the first one. Thats why batman said that superman over the years learned to do this. ( that thing was attacking them on a sub-concious level and thus was able to hurt superman because superman was sub-conciously surpressing his powers. thats why batman said superman was doing it to himself. Superman has went all-out plenty of time against many strong foes and friends and remained in the same strength class, he holds back against things or people that are not in his class or fear of killing them UNTIL he finds out that they can lay him out and take it or is just as strong and durable as him, he DOES NOT rise above them by not holding back, he then realize in order to have a chance to beat them, he HAS to go all out. Sometimes he wins, Sometimes he gets beat and needs help.

I just gave evidence that Superman went from not being able to hurt someone USING ALL OF HIS MIGHT to killing them fast on multiple occasions. He was shown straining with all his might when he wasn't able to hurt the beings. In the same comics it was mentioned that Superman has to release the mental blocks as the only way he can win. It wasn't easy for him to do. He had to be trained in one instance and in another face the possibility of Lois and everyone else dying.

Originally posted by Stoic
@H1A8, even though JLA/Avengers is not canon on this forum, it does not omit the fact that both companies saw eye to eye on the outcome of Superman and Thor's battle. This is a battle that would not have exhausted Thanos as was seen recently when Thor hit him with lightning twice, only to hear him beg for more of the same, and he willingly took a hit to the head from Thor which only served to move his head. This was just before he nearly KO'd Thor with one punch. Again Thanos can not win a who is the stronger match against Superman, because he does not have the lifting feats to argue for him. But like I said before, neither do many of the abstract beings in comics. Does this mean that Superman is stronger than they are? Of course not.

I understand what you are saying but you just can't say Thanos is stronger without a basis. How do we know he is stronger? What evidence do we have if we can't use crossovers? Outside of abstracts, physical beings needs feats to prove that they are stronger when comparing across companies. When comparing same companies then we can use direct comparison (although that evidence is weaker than feats). Characters with the better strength feats are stronger. That's how we know Namor is stronger than hawkman although they never fought.

Superman needs help and amps just to move a planet. His hardest punch to Doomsday in DoS shattered some windows. Thanos clashed with Drax and destroyed a planet. He killed Supernova+++ durability Silver Surfer in 7 punches.

He smacked Indestructible Hulk (Supernova level strength) across a town with a single gesture.

He stalemated Tyrant in physical strength, fought WM Power Gem Thor head up (over 200x stronger than Superman's shown strength by feats).

He beat down Captain Marvel who oneshotted planet busters like Magus, whooped Nova, and hurt Surfer.

Thanos has always been waaay stronger than the likes of Superman.....who still struggles to move a planet.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Superman needs help and amps just to move a planet. His hardest punch to Doomsday in DoS shattered some windows.

Good point.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden

He smacked Indestructible Hulk (Supernova level strength) across a town with a single gesture.

How many windows did that break?

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Superman needs help and amps just to move a planet.

fought WM Power Gem Thor head up ([b]over 200x stronger than Superman's shown strength by feats).

😐

I'd ask you to prove that first boy.

He beat down Captain Marvel who oneshotted planet busters like Magus, whooped Nova, and hurt Surfer.

Thanos has always been waaay stronger than the likes of Superman.....who still struggles to move a planet. [/B]

and who throws stellar mass like nothing? Lobo.

Superman has overpowered both of them together. You are proving how comicvine rots brain perfectly I might add though.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Superman needs help and amps just to move a planet. His hardest punch to Doomsday in DoS shattered some windows. Thanos clashed with Drax and destroyed a planet. He killed Supernova+++ durability Silver Surfer in 7 punches.

He smacked Indestructible Hulk (Supernova level strength) across a town with a single gesture.

He stalemated Tyrant in physical strength, fought WM Power Gem Thor head up (over 200x stronger than Superman's shown strength by feats).

He beat down Captain Marvel who oneshotted planet busters like Magus, whooped Nova, and hurt Surfer.

Thanos has always been waaay stronger than the likes of Superman.....who still struggles to move a planet.

Hey guys, Superman needs help to move a plannet while everyone in marvel is supernova level strength. Nevermind the fact that no top tier in marvel has moved a planet solo too.

What I want to know is when did Silver Surfer survive a supernova? I keep hearing about it and has never seen it.

So, basically this exceedingly futile discussion reaffirms by belief that inside Superman's mind is a little door labeled 'deus ex machina' and all he has to do is conveniently open it and then: boom! everything is right again in the world.

When a character is written clearly to have limitations but continuously breaks said limits, I wonder why they were ever put in place at all. There are endless possibilities as to how Superman could potentially overcome the more serious threats he faces than the current explanations. You don't have to be a creative genius to come up with an alternative to the current 'Superman really wanted to win so he won' reasoning I am seeing here. Talk all you want of his mental blocks but it's essentially a 'win' button. Honestly, I don't find that appealing at all in a character. Superman simply overcomes any adversity because he IS Superman. Unfortunately, its as much a part of him just as any other attribute or ability he possesses.

While I respect Superman as an icon and for all the qualities he represents, I can't help but to see him as a fundamentally flawed character in terms of how he is written. Where I assume many see entertaining storytelling and awe-inspiring feats in regards to the character as of late, I see uninspired direction, poor reasoning, and a lack of any convincing development to the character. Now before anybody accuses me with the age old 'like you could do any better', I do not claim that I could, nor would I ever want to write the character as I've already stated my position on the subject.

However, I acknowledge that he is just as popular now as he ever was, so I can only conclude that the majority of readers are enjoying this new, albeit not so unfamiliar, exploration of the character.

Lastly, I enjoy reading Ahbi's posts. Such passion for the character. Ever the faithful and righteous defender of Superman. Its admirable.

Originally posted by Orrsome28
So, basically this exceedingly futile discussion reaffirms by belief that inside Superman's mind is a little door labeled 'deus ex machina' and all he has to do is conveniently open it and then: boom! everything is right again in the world.

When a character is written clearly to have limitations but continuously breaks said limits, I wonder why they were ever put in place at all. There are endless possibilities as to how Superman could potentially overcome the more serious threats he faces than the current explanations. You don't have to be a creative genius to come up with an alternative to the current 'Superman really wanted to win so he won' reasoning I am seeing here. Talk all you want of his mental blocks but it's essentially a 'win' button. Honestly, I don't find that appealing at all in a character. Superman simply overcomes any adversity because he IS Superman. Unfortunately, its as much a part of him just as any other attribute or ability he possesses.

While I respect Superman as an icon and for all the qualities he represents, I can't help but to see him as a fundamentally flawed character in terms of how he is written. Where I assume many see entertaining storytelling and awe-inspiring feats in regards to the character as of late, I see uninspired direction, poor reasoning, and a lack of any convincing development to the character. Now before anybody accuses me with the age old 'like you could do any better', I do not claim that I could, nor would I ever want to write the character as I've already stated my position on the subject.

However, I acknowledge that he is just as popular now as he ever was, so I can only conclude that the majority of readers are enjoying this new, albeit not so unfamiliar, exploration of the character.

Lastly, I enjoy reading Ahbi's posts. Such passion for the character. Ever the faithful and righteous defender of Superman. Its admirable.

Also thanks.