Dante and Vergil vs Sephiroth

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Point is, statement like that are meaningless without feats to back them

Because you say so.... right

What? No it doesn't

Except that nothing in DMC is anywhere as powerful as a supernova, and the only statement around it has, no feats to back it, so no

So, if we're ignoring description, Seph's Obilvion being lightspeed is also hyperbole.

I can just as easily say the same thing about your Seph statement's.

Well, again, I point the Calc's back to the mess that happened during the Goku vs Superman battle.

Lightning is a form of Light, it strikes at lightspeed, its instantaneously there, and then instantaneously gone.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
A statement made by description.

So, if we're ignoring description, Seph's Obilvion being lightspeed is also hyperbole.

I can just as easily say the same thing about your Seph statement's.

Uh yeah, that's my point

I wouldn't advocate LS+ Sephiroth just because of a statement not backed by feats even if Dissidia was canon

Then there's the age old "Cell is not a solar system buster" and "Sensui is not a planet buster" type shite

Well, again, I point the Calc's back to the mess that happened during the Goku vs Superman battle.

DeathBattle admitted that they heavily highballed the calcs to give Goku a chance, or something along those lines

Regardless, DBZ does have FTL feats in animu fillers so, yeah

Lightning is a form of Light, it strikes at lightspeed, its instantaneously there, and then instantaneously gone.

No, the return stroke or something was relativistic, the actual bolt was Mach triple digits or some shit

And lightning is a form of electricity

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Uh yeah, that's my point

I wouldn't advocate LS+ Sephiroth just because of a statement not backed by feats even if Dissidia was canon

Then there's the age old "Cell is not a solar system buster" and "Sensui is not a planet buster" type shite

DeathBattle admitted that they heavily highballed the calcs to give Goku a chance, or something along those lines

Regardless, DBZ does have FTL feats in animu fillers so, yeah

No, the return stroke or something was relativistic, the actual bolt was Mach triple digits or some shit

And lightning is a form of electricity

Also, Dante tanking a supernova isn't hyperbole though, because it actually happened.

Small supernova*

Just because it was claimed to have the power of a supernova doesn't mean it's legit without the feats to back it up

Unless you have a DC feat, then the claim is for all intents and purposes uselss

So is your calc.

Yes, there's reasoned thought behind it, but it still means less then hyperbole put into a video game.

At least we get an idea of how powerful it is instead of getting random facts from narutoforums.com.

So is your calc.

Denial is more than just a river in Egypt, clearly

I mean if you're not going to use calcs to compare characters what the **** else will you use to get more precise results? Squiggles? Zig Zags?

Yes, there's reasoned thought behind it, but it still means less then hyperbole put into a video game.

>Something that gets you a more precise result
>Less merit than a statement with nothing at all to back it

Riiight

At least it's in the f*cking game, as opposed to random guys on a forum.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Redguard's from TES apparently were able to slice the molecule's in the air to create atomic explosions.

You can't slice through dimension's in your own dimension.

Also, the fact that it cuts through object's behind him only means it was a broader slash...

I have the slightest idea what TES is 🙁

But aside from that there are plenty of animes that have dimensional slicing swords that slice open dimensional barriers/portals without an explosion. Admittingly none come to mind where the slash teleports. I still don't see a broader slash explaining that however.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Doesn't some weapon in DMC2 or something state that it impacts with the force of a supernova or something?

And even then, lightning is only in the Mach triple digits or so, and Dante and Vergil are still outclassed in terms of DC, durability and hax really.

If Seph really felt threatened he could just raise his barrier while Dante and Vergil harmlessly chip away it it, and one shot them with a Shadow Flare.

I barely remember too much about DMC 2 except that DMC 2 Dante is supposed to be canonically a walking hax.

On a side note, I don't think I would count in Dissidia into the discussion unless it is actually canon to the series. Which I'd partially gladly accept for it making Squall and some others look more awesome. Otherwise that would be like taking Capcom vs Marvel into account where Dante/Vergil could fight through the Phoenix Force even... Or even Ace Wright could.

Durability, that's highly questionable. The most I've seen for Sephiroth was being thrown over a railing and taking 2 limit breaks from Cloud (despite Advent Children Seph being a weaker version). From what I can tell, Dante's biggest weakness seems to be getting stabbed with his own sword which usually just makes him mad a few seconds later. He also survived taking some comets while fighting Mundus. Also wiped the floor with Abigail when he activated his devil trigger pre-dmc3, who was supposed to be a planetary threat even though we never exactly see how. Also supposedly surpass his father's power who sealed himself away cause he was too powerful. Kinda reminds me of S-rank demons on Yu Yu Hakusho ermmlaugh
I have no idea if I missed anything elsewhere about Sephiroth's durability since I haven't played any FF other than 14 and a 15 demo in forever.

Anyway if Dante had an attack with that much power, I doubt he would use it in a place where he wouldn't want to cause that much destruction. I could see him using it against Mundus in their space/pocket dimension battle if he had whatever attack that was then... Though I think DMC 2 Dante was supposed to be able to wipe the floor with Mundus anyway.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
I have the slightest idea what TES is 🙁

But aside from that there are plenty of animes that have dimensional slicing swords that slice open dimensional barriers/portals without an explosion. Admittingly none come to mind where the slash teleports. I still don't see a broader slash explaining that however.

I barely remember too much about DMC 2 except that DMC 2 Dante is supposed to be canonically a walking hax.

On a side note, I don't think I would count in Dissidia into the discussion unless it is actually canon to the series. Which I'd partially gladly accept for it making Squall and some others look more awesome. Otherwise that would be like taking Capcom vs Marvel into account where Dante/Vergil could fight through the Phoenix Force even... Or even Ace Wright could.

Durability, that's highly questionable. The most I've seen for Sephiroth was being thrown over a railing and taking 2 limit breaks from Cloud (despite Advent Children Seph being a weaker version). From what I can tell, Dante's biggest weakness seems to be getting stabbed with his own sword which usually just makes him mad a few seconds later. He also survived taking some comets while fighting Mundus. Also wiped the floor with Abigail when he activated his devil trigger pre-dmc3, who was supposed to be a planetary threat even though we never exactly see how. Also supposedly surpass his father's power who sealed himself away cause he was too powerful. Kinda reminds me of S-rank demons on Yu Yu Hakusho ermmlaugh
I have no idea if I missed anything elsewhere about Sephiroth's durability since I haven't played any FF other than 14 and a 15 demo in forever.

Anyway if Dante had an attack with that much power, I doubt he would use it in a place where he wouldn't want to cause that much destruction. I could see him using it against Mundus in their space/pocket dimension battle if he had whatever attack that was then... Though I think DMC 2 Dante was supposed to be able to wipe the floor with Mundus anyway.

Durability, that's highly questionable. The most I've seen for Sephiroth was being thrown over a railing and taking 2 limit breaks from Cloud (despite Advent Children Seph being a weaker version)

Then there's Cloud being able to survive two ga level spells from the SHM, Weapons being able to survive falling into the ground hard enough to create craters dozens of kilometers wide and absurdly deep, Jenova surviving that meteor (on top of the planet believing it'd need several continent busters to deal with her). Sephiroth>>>

I should also mention Cloud being able to survive inside Bahamut's Tera Flare in AC or some shit

Also, AC Sephiroth is actually the strongest version of Sephiroth

Oh .

Cloud beat him, one-on-one.

That wasn't even the most chaotic battle (see what I did there) of FFVII. That would have been the final battle of Dirge of Cerberus.

Twice

First time he had his whole party backing him and his final battle was some kind of "mental battle" or some shit (at least, that's the most common interpretation)

Second time in AC was only because of Omnislash V6/Sephiroth being a dick the whole time

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dude, the DMC anime was Post-DMC 1, because Trish and Lady are in it.

I meant to put pre-dmc4

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Then there's Cloud being able to survive two ga level spells from the SHM, Weapons being able to survive falling into the ground hard enough to create craters dozens of kilometers wide and absurdly deep, Jenova surviving that meteor (on top of the planet believing it'd need several continent busters to deal with her). Sephiroth>>>

I should also mention Cloud being able to survive inside Bahamut's Tera Flare in AC or some shit

Also, AC Sephiroth is actually the strongest version of Sephiroth

Vegeta can take a large impact blast and keep fighting, give him a piercing shot through the body like Frieza did and that's a nope. Same concept, Dante gets pelted with meteors and knocked down who knows how far from Mundus and gets right back up to fight, stab through him with a sword and he goes down for a bit of time. As much as people mention 'city/country/planet buster', it's like they seem to forget how many characters fall to the most basic piercing attacks still. Unless these swords carry some continent busting power in them, I don't see what difference that makes when it still goes through them pretty easily. Cloud basically got turned into swiss cheese in Advent Children :/

As for AC Sephiroth being stronger than he was in the original 7 in terms of battle strength, that's highly debatable. It took the whole party in a battle with him in 7 until a mental fight with Cloud where he still lost to a limit break... Or a normal counter-attack if you want to be anti-climatic in that fight... AC, Tifa mentions they've all gotten weaker from FF7 but that Cloud was able to regain his strength. Sephiroth does mention that Cloud seems to have gotten stronger too. But I don't see anything that shows Sephiroth being stronger combat-wise than the original 7 or that Cloud completely transcended the party as a whole from 7.
What I'm basically getting at is kind of like how Genesis is stated to be a combat-equal to Sephiroth. Sephiroth is still more powerful of course just due to his Jenova cells and control of Jenova, but there has yet to be something shown in combat that shows the difference (between the two).

Of course though, Sephiroth apparently always holds back especially against Cloud so not like he had much to show I suppose. Either way, seems pretty cut-able/stab-able to me. As does the rest of the FF & DMC cast.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
[B]I meant to put pre-dmc4

Vegeta can take a large impact blast and keep fighting, give him a piercing shot through the body like Frieza did and that's a nope.

Because Freiza is just that much more powerful than Vegeta, and a more concentrated form of damage

Same concept, Dante gets pelted with meteors and knocked down who knows how far from Mundus and gets right back up to fight, stab through him with a sword and he goes down for a bit of time.

Well if it was by beings even on Nero's level, then it'd be far from a low end showing. Plus, swords, bullets, etc due to their sharp edges have a far higher level of pressure compared to a fist or explosion, reason why swords are very effective against very durable opponents when used by beings on a comparable tier

Same reason why railguns only have 10 megajoules or force behind them, but due to their tips, can harm beings with multi-city block level durability

As much as people mention 'city/country/planet buster', it's like they seem to forget how many characters fall to the most basic piercing attacks still.

Either those attacks are just that powerful (again, swords have a much thinner edge so they'd have a higher level of PSI, add superhuman strength/speed/etc into the mix, which makes them very effective), or it's just an inconsistency like guns being shown as harming characters they logically shouldn't (.50 calibers would be ineffective against ****ers who can tank city block busters, or guns can just be that ****ing powerful, like Metal Gear or Warhammer), ala guns harming Majin Buu, even Saiyan Saga characters can tank attacks that can mass scater the moon

Unless these swords carry some continent busting power in them, I don't see what difference that makes when it still goes through them pretty easily. Cloud basically got turned into swiss cheese in Advent Children :/

See above "lower surface area and higher PSI" shite. And Sephiroth is considerably above Cloud, WoG saying Cloud only won due to PIS, he had no materia or whatever, compared to Sephiroth who had, pretty much every materia based ability. Hell, that cloud gathering feat in AC alone puts him well above materialess Cloud

As for AC Sephiroth being stronger than he was in the original 7 in terms of battle strength, that's highly debatable. It took the whole party in a battle with him in 7 until a mental fight with Cloud where he still lost to a limit break... Or a normal counter-attack if you want to be anti-climatic in that fight...

Cloud did Omnislash Sephiroth's ass in FF7, AC he tried Omnislash regular but Seph stopped it easily enough

AC, Tifa mentions they've all gotten weaker from FF7 but that Cloud was able to regain his strength. Sephiroth does mention that Cloud seems to have gotten stronger too. But I don't see anything that shows Sephiroth being stronger combat-wise than the original 7 or that Cloud completely transcended the party as a whole from 7.

Well nothing in quantifiable terms I'll admit (depends on how you take some statement of Kadaj being above FF7 Seph from WoG, not that i'd personally advocate that myself but eh), same with how Freiza can planet bust and Cell is much more powerful, but it's hard to put exactly how much more powerful Cell is in quantifiable terms

Or Three Kings above Sensui and EoCB Yusuke, we know the former is much more powerful than the latter, hard to put into quantifiable terms

Or God Emperor is much more powerful than Angron, Lion El'Jonson, Ferrus Manus, etc, but it's hard to put into quantifiable terms how much more so

List goes on

I remember Sephiroth holding the entire party in the air with telekinesis and causing them pain, while holding back Holy. I also remember Sephiroth using illusions at the Northern-Crater by making the place look like Nibelheim, and making himself look like Tifa(to trick the party into giving the Black-Materia).
Therefore, I could easily see him making the brothers see each other as Sephiroth and fight among themselves, only for him to kill the survivor later. Or hold one of the brothers in place with TK, while making the other see his brother as Sephiroth, and killing him easily(due to TK immobilization), leaving the real Sephiroth to deal with the survivor.

Remember guys: Before Advent Children, before Dirge of Cerberus, and before Dissidia... There was a game called Final Fantasy VII. 😉

Why have feats from Advent Children been mentioned. This is the game versus forum, shouldn't only game feats count? I realize the movie is a direct continuation of the story of the game, but it is still a movie, not a game.

I don't know, then again, nobody really gives a shit about what applies and what doesn't given the relative inactivity of the board outside the comic and movie vs

Not that it matters, AC or no, Sephiroth is way out of the DMCverse's weight class

No, Dante is Faster then Sephiroth in combat. Lightning > Sephiroth, and Dante can command Lightning.

Hyperbole, Dante's best quantifiable speed feat is Mach 20 or so