Originally posted by Bentley
But how can you break out of a time loop if your time perception won't allow you to recognize it. Manhattan could be looped into it, by using his incredible perfection as a form of blindness: Manhattan becomes much easier to trick because he thinks he knows everything. He can be rather underperforming under an illusion because he's used to his boosted perceptions, the comics back up this claim.
He would realize he's in an illusion when he can't see into the future past the battle. In other words, instantly.
Again, my statement still stands, and your argument is retarded.
Originally posted by chasedown
Thinking you know everything and actually knowing everything are too different things.... I dont think dr manhattan is all knowing so izanami should work unless itachi tells him the rules to get out of it
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"He would realize he's in an illusion when he can't see into the future past the battle. In other words, instantly.
Again, my statement still stands, and your argument is retarded."
Idiot.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
He would realize he's in an illusion when he can't see into the future past the battle. In other words, instantly.Again, my statement still stands, and your argument is retarded.
But he'd see the future, he'd see the battle continuing forever. Maybe in that situation he'll think he's seeing the present: for Manhattan there is no difference. And that's the whole issue, Manhattan doesn't perceive time, your argument is that he will "see into the future", but he cannot.
Originally posted by Bentley
But he'd see the future, he'd see the battle continuing forever. Maybe in that situation he'll think he's seeing the present: for Manhattan there is no difference. And that's the whole issue, Manhattan doesn't perceive time, your argument is that he will "see into the future", but he cannot.
He has a non-linear perception of time, he doesn't have a lack of time perception.
He can experience different periods whenever he pleases in his life, meaning he will see the fight continuing endlessly, alter his consciousness into separate entities and kill Itachi since he's already out of Izanami then.
Again, the simple fact is that he lives in his past, present and future at the same time, and that he can distinguish the three. "He would realize he's in an illusion when he can't see into the future past the battle. In other words, instantly."
I don't think he can "alter his consciousness into separate entities" although by the way you stated it, you probably mean he will just see into a time in which he'll be free from Izanami and then just kill Itachi. That assumes he can get out of Izanami at all. There is no reason to believe Manhattan's perceptions would allow him to escape Izanami, he still has to get out of the Genjutsu like anyone else.
Even if he realizes instantly that he's in an illusion (for the sake of the argument, I think it would take him some time to do so), that doesn't free him from Genjutsu at that specific point. He'd have to work for it, and he's too oblivious to actually find himself and get out of it.
Originally posted by Bentley
I don't think he can "alter his consciousness into separate entities" although by the way you stated it, you probably mean he will just see into a time in which he'll be free from Izanami and then just kill Itachi. That assumes he can get out of Izanami at all. There is no reason to believe Manhattan's perceptions would allow him to escape Izanami, he still has to get out of the Genjutsu like anyone else.Even if he realizes instantly that he's in an illusion (for the sake of the argument, I think it would take him some time to do so), that doesn't free him from Genjutsu at that specific point. He'd have to work for it, and he's too oblivious to actually find himself and get out of it.
Doctor Manhattan can make separate consciousnesses from his own by simply willing them to be. What I'm saying, is that he would do so and the other version of him would be out of it, because it's not a clone, but a literal other Doctor Manhattan. In other words, from Itachi's POV, DM would be hit by Izanami, but other conscious DM's would start appearing, and kill him.
Again, DM has a non-linear perception of time, but he still can perceive time. The only difference is that he experiences it all at once, meaning he can instantly react to things as long as they fall under his range of ability. Breaking out of Izanami by splitting his consciousness, and killing Itachi DEFINITELY falls in that range, as he only needs to use two of his multiple abilities, assuming Itachi can catch him in it in the first place before he's vaporized.
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Manhattan doesn't react to the future in the present though, he just lets it all happen as was seen several times in the comic. According to him, he can't actually do anything about it otherwise he would have been doing so back before he became apathetic.
Did you get that from watching the Watchmen movie?
Anyway, that's not true at all. Why do you think that DM ended the Vietnam war in one week without destroying anything other than the Vietcong?
He can change and alter the future but he doesn't see the need to often times because if he averts one crisis, an even bigger one can occur.
Yes, he does react to the future in the present. What don't you get about "He's experiencing it all at the same time"? He's literally watching himself in third person do everything at once.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Did you get that from watching the Watchmen movie?Anyway, that's not true at all. Why do you think that DM ended the Vietnam war in one week without destroying anything other than the Vietcong?
He can change and alter the future but he doesn't see the need to often times because if he averts one crisis, an even bigger one can occur.
Yes, he does react to the future in the present. What don't you get about "He's experiencing it all at the same time"? He's literally watching himself in third person do everything at once.
In his world that's just how vietnam ended. He flat out says he has no control over the future, and we see him not react to things. Like when he was shocked when Comedian killed the woman, he knew it would happen and at that point in time he wasn't found of it but still acted surprised. He got upset and angry at the press conference when the cancer thing happened, despite knowing that would be the reveal. "I'm just a puppet that can see the strings" is how he describes it, he still has the same conversations and lets all the bad events happen even when it upsets him. He doesn't change his future he lives it, everything that happened to him was the way it always happened. He expressed remorse at certain things happening, if he could stop it he would have. Despite knowing it he always acts the same way without fail, his future and past never change.
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
In his world that's just how vietnam ended. He flat out says he has no control over the future, and we see him not react to things. Like when he was shocked when Comedian killed the woman, he knew it would happen and at that point in time he wasn't found of it but still acted surprised. He got upset and angry at the press conference when the cancer thing happened, despite knowing that would be the reveal. "I'm just a puppet that can see the strings" is how he describes it, he still has the same conversations and lets all the bad events happen even when it upsets him. He doesn't change his future he lives it, everything that happened to him was the way it always happened. He expressed remorse at certain things happening, if he could stop it he would have. Despite knowing it he always acts the same way without fail, his future and past never change.
Wait was he saying that Dr. M altered history/time by ending the Vietnam War faster in the comic than how long it lasted in our real world?
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Did you get that from watching the Watchmen movie?Anyway, that's not true at all. Why do you think that DM ended the Vietnam war in one week without destroying anything other than the Vietcong?
He can change and alter the future but he doesn't see the need to often times because if he averts one crisis, an even bigger one can occur.
Yes, he does react to the future in the present. What don't you get about "He's experiencing it all at the same time"? He's literally watching himself in third person do everything at once.
He can't change what he sees in the future in the present.
"We're all puppets Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings."
Originally posted by chasedown
Then izanami is a viable offense for itachi to imploy since from my research it seems that dr manhattan has a lot of internal conflict figuring out how to break the loop should be hard for him
Dr. Manhattan is still so far above him in power though, don't see how Itachi would use such a tactic before Dr. M just erases him.
