Originally posted by chasedown
im just stating possible ways for itachi to win
he doesnt have to kill him trapping someone in eternal genjutsu is just fine.
You completely ignored what he said. Itachi can't use Izanami instantly. DM can vaporize him before his synapses fire to tell his brain that he's going to use Izanami.
You guys don't understand. I'm not saying that DM can change the past or future. I'm saying that he would simply see the future going on in Izanami, and separate his consciousness and be out of it instantly. Izanami demonstrably only works on one person at a time. Manhattan can simply will himself to be a hundred people.
Originally posted by chasedown
Scans?You may be right idk much about DM but i need to see scans of a feat like that.
I take it you've never read or seen Watchmen.
Here's the quote, "I wish you would stop making those clone things, they're creepy.", "They're not clones, they are entities separate from my own consciousness, they are me, and at the same time are not.", "That makes it even worse!".
That's not the exact quote, but a rough one from my recollection.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You guys don't understand. I'm not saying that DM can change the past or future.
Actually you did
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Why do you think that DM ended the Vietnam war in one week without destroying anything other than the Vietcong?He can change and alter the future
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Actually you did
I meant that he can change the future collectively, but not his own. It's difficult to explain because it's completely imperceivable to humans, but you get what I meant.
He can, to a degree, change other peoples future, but he can't do anything that he hasn't already done, because of his non-linear time perception.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I meant that he can change the future collectively, but not his own. It's difficult to explain because it's completely imperceivable to humans, but you get what I meant.He can, to a degree, change other peoples future, but he can't do anything that he hasn't already done, because of his non-linear time perception.
Lol i clearly said i dont know much about DM im asking you to educate me no need for the insult.
Thats the movie i meant scans of the actual graphic novel. Ive heard the movie has some discrepancies.
Originally posted by chasedown
Lol i clearly said i dont know much about DM im asking you to educate me no need for the insult.Thats the movie i meant scans of the actual graphic novel. Ive heard the movie has some discrepancies.
First off, you quoted the wrong thing from me.
Secondly, how is me saying "I take it you've never watched or read Watchmen" an insult? You're ignorant on the topic. Clear cut. Not an insult, just a fact.
Lastly, that is true. However, I don't want to take the time to find the page, so meh. That particular quote was very accurate anyway.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
First off, you quoted the wrong thing from me.Secondly, how is me saying "I take it you've never watched or read Watchmen" an insult? You're ignorant on the topic. Clear cut. Not an insult, just a fact.
Lastly, that is true. However, I don't want to take the time to find the page, so meh. That particular quote was very accurate anyway.
It condescending but ok
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Doctor Manhattan can make separate consciousnesses from his own by simply willing them to be. What I'm saying, is that he would do so and the other version of him would be out of it, because it's not a clone, but a literal other Doctor Manhattan. In other words, from Itachi's POV, DM would be hit by Izanami, but other conscious DM's would start appearing, and kill him.Again, DM has a non-linear perception of time, but he still can perceive time. The only difference is that he experiences it all at once, meaning he can instantly react to things as long as they fall under his range of ability. Breaking out of Izanami by splitting his consciousness, and killing Itachi DEFINITELY falls in that range, as he only needs to use two of his multiple abilities, assuming Itachi can catch him in it in the first place before he's vaporized.
Manhattan cannot change the past nor the future, this means that if he created a clone before entering Izanami then he's safe, if he doesn't then he cannot just do it in the past. That's how his powers are described several times in the series.
Originally posted by Bentley
Manhattan cannot change the past nor the future, this means that if he created a clone before entering Izanami then he's safe, if he doesn't then he cannot just do it in the past. That's how his powers are described several times in the series.
yea im thinking if he was under izanami what would slitting yourself up do to break him out of it. They would all be caught in the jutsu.
especially with all the internal conflict this guy harbors
Originally posted by Bentley
Manhattan cannot change the past nor the future, this means that if he created a clone before entering Izanami then he's safe, if he doesn't then he cannot just do it in the past. That's how his powers are described several times in the series.
HE DOESN'T NEED TO DO IT IN THE PAST.
You clearly don't understand that these ARE NOT CLONES.
They are separate versions of him, all completely equal to him, as they are different bodies of his consciousness. They can simply come out of him, and they won't be under Izanami, because Izanami has no showings of being used on more than a single person at once.
Originally posted by chasedown
Then izanami is a viable offense for itachi to imploy since from my research it seems that dr manhattan has a lot of internal conflict figuring out how to break the loop should be hard for him
I conclude the opposite. Since he can see the future he will know what to do to avoid that. What Dr. Manhattan is referring to is the preordained/predestined unfolding of events.
For all we know, DM knows that Itachi will try mind tricks and it is predestined for Jon to circumvent it and vaporize Itachi.
That path is just as likely as Itachi trapping DM in a genjutsu.
Between those two poles is a nearly infinite number of possibilities and outcomes. The purpose of this thread is to determine which of these nearly infinite possibilities is the most probable outcome and decide upon a winner.
Based on that, it should be quite clear that Dr. M. has the upperhand in all but a few miniscule number of outcomes and scenarios.
Therefore, the conclusion should be in favor of Dr. M. and not Itachi.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I conclude the opposite. Since he can see the future he will know what to do to avoid that. What Dr. Manhattan is referring to is the preordained/predestined unfolding of events.For all we know, DM knows that Itachi will try mind tricks and it is predestined for Jon to circumvent it and vaporize Itachi.
That path is just as likely as Itachi trapping DM in a genjutsu.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
HE DOESN'T NEED TO DO IT IN THE PAST.You clearly don't understand that these ARE NOT CLONES.
They are separate versions of him, all completely equal to him, as they are different bodies of his consciousness. They can simply come out of him, and they won't be under Izanami, because Izanami has no showings of being used on more than a single person at once.
Mr. Manhattan can use such tactics but he never used them on battle, he's certainly less aggressive than Itachi when using his speed so to assume he'll always split into several Manhattans from the get to go is a bit odd.
Specially if we consider that I'm providing the only viable scenario in which Itachi wins. The likeness of these odds are a different matter entirely, and they are not worth of discussion until we determine if Itachi can win at all.