Itachi vs Dr Manhattan

Originally posted by dadudemon
I conclude the opposite. Since he can see the future he will know what to do to avoid that. What Dr. Manhattan is referring to is the preordained/predestined unfolding of events.

For all we know, DM knows that Itachi will try mind tricks and it is predestined for Jon to circumvent it and vaporize Itachi.

That path is just as likely as Itachi trapping DM in a genjutsu.

Between those two poles is a nearly infinite number of possibilities and outcomes. The purpose of this thread is to determine which of these nearly infinite possibilities is the most probable outcome and decide upon a winner.

Based on that, it should be quite clear that Dr. M. has the upperhand in all but a few miniscule number of outcomes and scenarios.

Therefore, the conclusion should be in favor of Dr. M. and not Itachi.

I thought from what i read some of you guys say he cant alter the future so whats seeing into the future gonna do if your gonna be put under it. He can know that hes gonna get put under it but if itachi doesnt tell him how to get out wouldnt izanami still be a problem for a mentally conflicted character like him?

Originally posted by Bentley
Mr. Manhattan can use such tactics but he never used them on battle, he's certainly less aggressive than Itachi when using his speed so to assume he'll always split into several Manhattans from the get to go is a bit odd.

Specially if we consider that I'm providing the only viable scenario in which Itachi wins. The likeness of these odds are a different matter entirely, and they are not worth of discussion until we determine if Itachi can win at all.

True. He usually just vaporizes whoever he wants to. However, he's been shown to be perfectly capable of using his personal omniscience to his advantage in battle. Either way, Manhattan has a way of escaping Izanami casually and Itachi can't harm him with his strongest technique, making this a moot point.

So then what are the terms of victory here? I was assuming that it would be death. So what, if Manhattan got caught in it at all, he instantly loses? That's dumb, considering he can easily get out of it and atomize Itachi.

Originally posted by chasedown
I thought from what i read some of you guys say he cant alter the future so whats seeing into the future gonna do if your gonna be put under it. He can know that hes gonna get put under it but if itachi doesnt tell him how to get out wouldnt izanami still be a problem for a mentally conflicted character like him?

Why are you asking this?

I already explained. DM can will his consciousness to separate, meaning that his body can split into a literal OTHER DM, meaning the other him wouldn't be in Izanami, as it has only been shown to work on one person at once. This would mean the other DM would kill Itachi, and re-integrate the other DM into his own body without being in a loop as it would already be broken, rendering Izanami useless.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
True. He usually just vaporizes whoever he wants to. However, he's been shown to be perfectly capable of using his personal omniscience to his advantage in battle.

When? I haven't read before the watchmen, but in the original series Manhattan barely fought at all.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
[BEither way, Manhattan has a way of escaping Izanami casually and Itachi can't harm him with his strongest technique, making this a moot point.

So then what are the terms of victory here? I was assuming that it would be death. So what, if Manhattan got caught in it at all, he instantly loses? That's dumb, considering he can easily get out of it and atomize Itachi. [/B]

Manhattan has a way of escaping Izanami... The same every character has to break the jutsu. My argument is that Manhattan, despite having all the future and past expériences of his life at sight, was unable to free himself from depression without the help of Laurie. When he was having the blues in Mars he was simply unable to shake it off, and that's seeing the future in which he shook off the effect already. So he can be tricked for an extensive period of time.

As far as the win, I think that incapacitation can be considered a win.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Why are you asking this?

I already explained. DM can will his consciousness to separate, meaning that his body can split into a literal OTHER DM, meaning the other him wouldn't be in Izanami, as it has only been shown to work on one person at once. This would mean the other DM would kill Itachi, and re-integrate the other DM into his own body without being in a loop as it would already be broken, rendering Izanami useless.

I know what you saying but if he was already under the genjutsu making clones of yourself isnt gonna break you out of it. If it was that easy kabuto could have done the same because clones in the naruto verse have seperate consciousness also they act on their own.

Itachi told kabuto how to get out of it and he still was under the genjutsu for quite some time its not easy to get out of.

And someone like Dm who constantly is mentally conflicted should have a hard time maybe even harder time getting out. I just read up on dm on i think izanami can really work as powerful as he is he really seems to lack a great deal of self confidence.

Originally posted by chasedown
I know what you saying but if he was already under the genjutsu making clones of yourself isnt gonna break you out of it. If it was that easy kabuto could have done the same because clones in the naruto verse have seperate consciousness also they act on their own.

Itachi told kabuto how to get out of it and he still was under the genjutsu for quite some time its not easy to get out of.

And someone like Dm who constantly is mentally conflicted should have a hard time maybe even harder time getting out. I just read up on dm on i think izanami can really work as powerful as he is he really seems to lack a great deal of self confidence.

You obviously don't know what I'm saying. This is the last time I'm saying this. He literally SPLITS his consciousness into other beings that are LITERALLY NOT him. Not clones. Actual separate beings.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You obviously [B]don't know what I'm saying. This is the last time I'm saying this. He literally SPLITS his consciousness into other beings that are LITERALLY NOT him. Not clones. Actual separate beings. [/B]

I don't understand your point, are you saying that such method should perfectly counter any genjutsu? I agree that if it was used before Izanami got off it should work, but I don't see it as a valid strategy afterwards.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You obviously [B]don't know what I'm saying. This is the last time I'm saying this. He literally SPLITS his consciousness into other beings that are LITERALLY NOT him. Not clones. Actual separate beings. [/B]

Splitting yourself up would negate genjutsu?

Dr. Manhattan would whoop basically anyone. He is written out to have God-like powers.

But I like Itachi more as a character.

Originally posted by therapist1
Dr. Manhattan would whoop basically anyone. He is written out to have God-like powers.

But I like Itachi more as a character.

Except... well, really any galaxy level+ character.

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't understand your point, are you saying that such method should perfectly counter any genjutsu? I agree that if it was used before Izanami got off it should work, but I don't see it as a valid strategy afterwards.

My point is that he can create other versions of himself. Literally a different person. Therefor, because Izanami can't work on more than one person at once, it will instantly be negated.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
My point is that he can create other versions of himself. Literally a different person. Therefor, because Izanami can't work on more than one person at once, it will instantly be negated.

That wouldnt negate it if he was already under the genjutsu tho. If that were the case kabuto could have just done that. The clones in naruto have seperate consciouses and have the ability to act on their own. Weve seen them have conversations with ppl on their own and think for themselves throughout the series

Power isnt the only factor in a fight you have to look at all variables.
Yes dr.manhattan is near god like but something like izanami would be his kryptonite. I recently read watchmen and doctor manhattan is one of the most mentally conflicted characters ive ever seen. For someone so strong he lacks a great deal of self confidence and sometimes even views himself as weak. Izanami is a jutsu that would take advantage of those flaws lying within dr. Manhattans character.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Except... well, really any galaxy level+ character.

I consider Manhattan to be galaxy level+. His powers develop as time goes by and he already has the ability to control all matter. There's no getting by him.

Originally posted by chasedown
That wouldnt negate it if he was already under the genjutsu tho. If that were the case kabuto could have just done that. The clones in naruto have seperate consciouses and have the ability to act on their own. Weve seen them have conversations with ppl on their own and think for themselves throughout the series

Power isnt the only factor in a fight you have to look at all variables.
Yes dr.manhattan is near god like but something like izanami would be his kryptonite. I recently read watchmen and doctor manhattan is one of the most mentally conflicted characters ive ever seen. For someone so strong he lacks a great deal of self confidence and sometimes even views himself as weak. Izanami is a jutsu that would take advantage of those flaws lying within dr. Manhattans character.

Manhattan is likely to be immune to genjutsu because he can analyze and control matter. He can be taken by surprise if you are smart enough, but he cannot be destroyed and as soon as he catches on, he will have a solution ready.

He is mentally conflicted because he is so powerful and can see things so clearly that it makes it hard for him to connect even though it's his job as a symbol of America's power; not because he has some sort of human weakness to exploit like fear or a lack of self-confidence. He certainly doesn't view himself as weak, where did you ever read that? The point of his character is that he is so beyond human he doesn't fall emotions like that.

Originally posted by therapist1
I consider Manhattan to be galaxy level+. His powers develop as time goes by and he already has the ability to control all matter. There's no getting by him.

Manhattan is likely to be immune to genjutsu because he can analyze and control matter. He can be taken by surprise if you are smart enough, but he cannot be destroyed and as soon as he catches on, he will have a solution ready.

He is mentally conflicted because he is so powerful and can see things so clearly that it makes it hard for him to connect even though it's his job as a symbol of America's power; not because he has some sort of human weakness to exploit like fear or a lack of self-confidence. He certainly doesn't view himself as weak, where did you ever read that? The point of his character is that he is so beyond human he doesn't fall emotions like that.

The fact that he is mentally conflicted is the reason why izanami may work against him. It doesnt matter why or why not he is conflicted.

I meant weak figuratively not in a literal physical sense. Hes called himself a puppet before. This suggest he believes he is a small part im a much larger scheme

Originally posted by chasedown
The fact that he is mentally conflicted is the reason why izanami may work against him. It doesnt matter why or why not he is conflicted.

I meant weak figuratively not in a literal physical sense. Hes called himself a puppet before. This suggest he believes he is a small part im a much larger scheme

In the scheme of time and space and physical happenings of it, not illusionary tactics. If it's not real matter, there is no reason Manhattan shouldn't be able to see through it.

He can be tricked, like how Adrian set him up, but he was only fanning the flames of what Manhattan already wanted. Mind tricks not using real things are not likely to work on Manhattan, and even if they did, how would Itachi do the final deed and kill him? He couldn't.

I will say though, the same as Manhattan commended Adrian for being a smart guy, Itachi would also get praised before getting squashed like a bug. I prefer Itachi as a character no human is ever going to be able to beat Manhattan

Originally posted by therapist1
In the scheme of time and space and physical happenings of it, not illusionary tactics. If it's not real matter, there is no reason Manhattan shouldn't be able to see through it.

He can be tricked, like how Adrian set him up, but he was only fanning the flames of what Manhattan already wanted. Mind tricks not using real things are not likely to work on Manhattan, and even if they did, how would Itachi do the final deed and kill him? He couldn't.

I will say though, the same as Manhattan commended Adrian for being a smart guy, Itachi would also get praised before getting squashed like a bug. I prefer Itachi as a character no human is ever going to be able to beat Manhattan

Yes, but if Manhattan could get out of Izanami, and kill Itachi, then it wouldn't matter if he landed it, would it?

Not to mention this is pointless anyways. It takes Itachi time to gather enough chakra for Izanami, and in the first nano-second, he'd be dead.

This whole thread is pointless. Manhattan would atomize Itachi before his synapses could fire, telling him to cast Izanami, even if he COULD use it immediately. The fight starts and Itachi's dead. The end.

Not bothered to devils advocate ways that Itachi might stand a chance.

The good doctor cleans house.

People are seriously arguing for Itachi *looks at usernames*

Well I can't say I'm totally surprised

I'm not sure that Doctor Manhattan CAN die. He just atomizes Itachi. /thread