Originally posted by Time ImmemorialIf that's true, it's really foolish.
Basically from what I have gotten here is any thread that the word "God" is involved Lestrov has a problem with it. So its not that he doesn't think Q would lose to God, its that since he has a problem with any being called a God, or the word God being used. That side always loses.
I'm an atheist, but that has no bearing on my decision making in threads where God is not a belief, but an actual being with actual feats.
Originally posted by Lestov16no to both.
It's either:
The biblicalverse is an MWI multiverse, which it's not, because to be so would defeat the purpose of heaven and hell, not to mention that an infinite multiverse was never mentioned. It would be like saying the LOTRverse is an infinite multiverse, when nothing has suggested itOR
The ST verse branched off from the biblicalverse, which it didn't because they have completely different initial conditions
If that's not it, please indulge me in what it actually is
i can't move forward until you tell me if you agree with the definition of multiverse as i wrote it... is that even somewhat close to what you'd agree the definition is?
Originally posted by marwash22
okay, good.a multiverse is a collection of universes (alternate realities), that came into existence when significant events in time were changed... agree or disagree?
Every quantum possibility is realized in a MWI multiverse, not just 'significant' events, but OK. your definition is partially correct. Go on.
cool.
your argument is that The Q are more powerful because their world has alternate realities and MorganGod's world doesn't. The only reason a multiverse doesn't exist in "Bruce Almighty" is because those "possibilities" did not occur... or at least, we did not see them, and thus, we can't say they exist.
A multiverse cannot exist if a universe did not exist first, MorganGod created THE universe... given that, how is it at all logical to say that he would not be able to control the multiverse (if one existed in "Bruce Almighty"😉 when he created the thing (the universe) that the other things (the alternate realities) branched off from?
How it more impressive to have multiversal power than creating the actual universe that a multiverse would come from?
This brings me back to my initial point that MorganGod created the universe and the Q did not.
now, Epicurus says they are indeed capable of creating an entire universe, but i have not been able to find the proof. If you can substantiate his claim, we can end this debate and call it a stalemate.
That's just a hypothetical "what if it was a multiverse"? It's not, so there's no reason to refer to it like it is. If Yahweh did create the source universe for an infinite multiverse, that would be impressive, but he didn't. He created a single physical universe (won't count the metaphysical heaven and hell) from which there are no MWI possible worlds. The point is moot.
I'm going to rewatch some TNG to get some exact quotes. Stay tuned.
Originally posted by Lestov16the Star Trek multiverse started out as one singular universe, just like the "Bruce Almighty" world, the only difference is that those possibilities occurred and alternate realities were created.
That's just a hypothetical "what if it was a multiverse"? It's not, so there's no reason to refer to it like it is. If Yahweh did create the source universe for an infinite multiverse, that would be impressive, but he didn't. He created a single physical universe (won't count the metaphysical heaven and hell) from which there are no MWI possible worlds. The point is moot.
Unless you're claiming the Star Trek world started out as a multiverse already, the point is not moot.
anyhow, although it's not a moot point, it is kind of irrelevant considering MorganGod's feat of creating an actual universe is more impressive than having nigh-limitless power in a world that has multiple realities.
we needs those proofs! I'm on pins and needles over here.
Multiverse>>>>>>>universe, doesn't matter if it's the source or not. Also, TBH, a multiverse can not have a source universe. Or rather, every universe is a source universe, since every other universe in the multiverse relative to the one being referenced is a phase space of all possible alternate outcomes of the referenced universe. Every universe is isotropic. Thus there is no "center of the multiverse". Just wanted to kill that argument right there.
Those screenfeats are coming, baby. They'll impregnate you with how much they're coming.
Originally posted by Lestov16that doesn't make sense.
Multiverse>>>>>>>universe, doesn't matter if it's the source or not. Also, TBH, a multiverse can not have a source universe. Or rather, every universe is a source universe, since every other universe in the multiverse relative to the one being referenced is a phase space of all possible alternate outcomes of the referenced universe. Every universe is isotropic. Thus there is no "center of the multiverse". Just wanted to kill that argument right there.
you just agreed that a multiverse is the product of events in time being changed, the final result being alternate realities.
there has to be an original universe, a "616" so to speak.
g007-psyduck
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I don't think that is what he meant.I think he is debating wether or not the sub dimensions Q makes on a whim are entirely different in scale from a fully functional dimension, especially if they were designed just to screw around with Picard & co.
To be perfectly honest, who the hell knows? They could be all mental projections rather than actual physical realms of being.... Still that's an assumption, and not solid fact either. The truth is, nobody can say wether or not the alternate realities we saw on screen are real, limited in scale, or merely full sensory illusions. Either way, they worked for their intended purpose.
Yeah. It's a bit ambiguous. That's what made Q kinda cool imo. I'm unsure about this topic though. One thing is for sure though. Freegod was undoubtedly god. The Q? They weren't completely omnipotent from what I remember. I say that because they didnt really seem to have it figured out with regards to their own society. Also, there are a whole bunch of ridiculously powerful beings in the ST franchise with the Q being probably at the top.
So, Freegod Imo
Originally posted by marwash22
that doesn't make sense.you just agreed that a multiverse is the product of events in time being changed, the final result being alternate realities.
there has to be an original universe, a "616" so to speak.
g007-psyduck
Yes, a multiverse is the product of events in all spacetimes having some sort of different possible outcome to them. Let me ask you this, if a multiverse actually exists, is our universe the source universe or one of the alternates?
Yeah, if you're trying to go for an objective scientific definition of multiverse, I don't think referencing a comic book will actually help you there.
Originally posted by Lestov16that is impossible to answer without information regarding who made the first ripple. If someone from our universe was the culprit, then yes, we would be "Earth-1".
Let me ask you this, if a multiverse actually exists, is our universe the source universe or one of the alternates?
the die analogy is solid, but a multiverse doesn't start off as that six-sided die, it becomes that over time as more and more divergent paths are created. There absolutely has to be a starting point, a first universe; otherwise, you have multiple realities existing without any ripples taking place, which would make the very definition of "multiverse" invalid.
OK, I'll go with it. A multiverse needs a source universe. This is true. And yes God did create a universe. And yes, if God created a source universe for a infinite multiverse, he would have control over that entire multiverse. The thing is he DIDN'T create a source universe for an infinite multiverse. He created a single universe, with no divergent timelines, and then declared that one universe to be "everything that was, is, and will be", meaning the aggregate sum of what he can create. Thus everything he created can be contained within a single universe.
Originally posted by Lestov16
OK, I'll go with it. A multiverse needs a source universe. This is true. And yes God did create a universe. And yes, if God created a source universe for a infinite multiverse, he would have control over that entire multiverse. The thing is he DIDN'T create a source universe for an infinite multiverse. He created a single universe, with no divergent timelines, and then declared that one universe to be "everything that was, is, and will be", meaning the aggregate sum of what he can create. Thus everything he created can be contained within a single universe.
So your back to saying he created one universe. First you said he created three, then two, then one. The story with you changes like the wind here. Heaven and hell are on different timelines. There is no time in those versus.
There are two kind of universe discussed in Physics, first is one of the results of string theory and is that our universe is part of a multiverse which contains infinite numbers of universes with different physical laws, the other kind is the result of both particle physics and quantum information and is the famous one : Parallel universes which are just other realities of our own universe , but this one is a little tricky because those other universes are like a picture of our universe , they are not actually happening, they are like a artificial reality like video games, just cross a photon from a wormhole and you will have one!
Originally posted by dadudemonI'm an atheist arguing on the behalf of God, lol. Faith has nothing to do with this thread considering the God we're discussing is undeniably a real being.
Time Immemorial, this was a decent thread but too many antitheists roam KMC to make a thread like this interesting.
Originally posted by Epicurusk.
Yes you are. Requoting that post again and again doesn't change the fact that your logic is purposely equating the 2 separate fictional universes with each other.