Originally posted by Nephthys
How does he not beat Dooku? He's faster and stronger than Dooku is in lightsaber abilty, his lightning is vastly more powerful, his telekinesis is more devastating in its destructive power and to my knowledge he has greater Force shields.This is likewise for Exar Kun. The only area I'd say Kun has on Bane is sorcery and the power of his amulet.
Malgus performed better against a more powerful team in Swtor. I don't see Revan force choking 3 members while dueling the 4th.
Game mechanics ftw!
*sigh* Do I really have to hunt through Che's twitter feed to find the post that expressly says game mechanics and anything to do with them are non canon?
But if you must take Game Mechanics, Revan hurled boulders the size of a large Bus at people.
Originally posted by Selenial
Game mechanics ftw!*sigh* Do I really have to hunt through Che's twitter feed to find the post that expressly says game mechanics and anything to do with them are non canon?
But if you must take Game Mechanics, Revan hurled boulders the size of a large Bus at people.
It's not a game mechanic if it's a scripted event and is stated to be occurring in the dialogue window and in the middle of the screen.
I take that Revan feat as canon too. 👆
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Are you really trying to educate him on Revan's abilities?
We all know of his asteroid telekinetic feat. 🙄
Did I mention anywhere that that is new information?
No. I just meant it to say it's more powerful than force choking people.
Also, are you REALLY using in game Level to determine the strength of the strike team?
Because if you're gonna do that, you might as well say that one well geared sith lord is a match for malgus.
Noting of course that cutscenes allow for that, entering alone he greets you as someone alone (Like, Dark Councillor, Wrath etc) and you proceed to "Duel to the Death"
So yah, Black whole geared Sins ftw!
Originally posted by Selenial
Did I mention anywhere that that is new information?No. I just meant it to say it's more powerful than force choking people.
Also, are you REALLY using in game Level to determine the strength of the strike team?
Because if you're gonna do that, you might as well say that one well geared sith lord is a match for malgus.
Noting of course that cutscenes allow for that, entering alone he greets you as someone alone (Like, Dark Councillor, Wrath etc) and you proceed to "Duel to the Death"
So yah, Black whole geared Sins ftw!
It's not more powerful considering the caliber of the people Malgus was choking.
I find it logical to assume that for 4-man missions, the full 4-man TOR team was used. It's already confirmed to be the case for Revan.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not more powerful considering the caliber of the people Malgus was choking.I find it logical to assume that for 4-man missions, the full 4-man TOR team was used. It's already confirmed to be the case for Revan.
"The Empire and Republic call on their most powerful heroes to board the Sith’s stolen battlestation and bring an end to their march across the galaxy. But the rogue Sith was prepared, and has readied the battlestation in preparation for the confrontation that lies ahead. Now the most elite heroes in the galaxy must battle their way through a seemingly endless army of droids and soldiers before facing off with the rogue Sith to crush their new Empire once and for all."
So yeah, they gather the full strike team. But which one is unconfirmed. I would wager the Republic though.
Also Neph, you really need to add some of these quotes to your respect threads. They are pretty badass.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not a game mechanic if it's a scripted event and is stated to be occurring in the dialogue window and in the middle of the screen.I take that Revan feat as canon too. 👆
So you're now going directly Contradicting canon?
But Beni dismissing Revan Novel is ridiculous? Mmk
Considering I'm not counting them as gameplay mechanics, no.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
All the ones that, which are confirmed to be the Empire side, state they are the "best in the galaxy", etc etc.
I can gather all the accolades if you would like? I'm rather bored atm lol.
Nah, I'd prefer to stick to quotes specifically about those characters for the respect threads. But it's great to know those quotes do exist. It's hard to deny the TOR protags their proper respect when they're confirmed as the best of the best of their era. 👆
It's hard to deny the TOR protags their proper respect when they're confirmed as the best of the best of their era. thumb up
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Pipe down please Legend, and don't use obscene language, that kind of stuff is censored on SWTOR forums and I'm sure its a violation of KMC rules as well.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Anyway, Selenial is correct, the entire planet is a dark side nexus:...The planet was shrouded in a pervasive miasma of dark side energy...
--Taken from Wookieepedia, source from Fate of the Jedi: Ascension.
It unsurprising that you are unfamiliar with this source.
Anyway, the entire planet, much like Korriban and Ziost was a DS nexus. But Sith monuments on the said planet were designed as focal points for that energy, channeling it by way of Sith architectural designs - really you should be aware this, we are talking general knowledge here.
P.S. the definiton of a Force nexus is any area unusually strong in the Force, Kaas is more steeped in the DS of the Force than an average planet and is therefore a DS nexus.
Again general knowledge here.
IMO, nexus represents a region containing an unusually strong concentration of energy. Such a concentration of energy can have an impact on living beings, if visited.
EXAMPLE: Emperor Vitiate transformed Dark Temple in to a nexus of dark side energy, a place which could drive living beings insane:
Hundreds of years ago, the Sith Emperor ordered the construction of the Dark Temple as a burial place for his dead and defeated enemies, "to aid them in becoming one with the Force." Little is known of what rituals the Emperor performed there, but the Dark Temple has become a nexus of powerful dark side energy, and a place where ancient weapons and ancient secrets of the Sith lay sealed away in cavernous chambers. Although the Dark Temple grounds have always been a dangerous place for the weak-willed (the expansion of the Kaas City power grid into tunnels beneath the temple drove a thousand slaves mad), the temple itself remained sealed until recently, when an expedition of power-hungry Sith Lords and their servants breached the gateway. The Dark Council did not sanction this intrusion, nor did it punish the rogue Sith; no one returned from the expedition to punish. Violent electrical storms surrounded the temple for the first week after it was opened, and since then, additional expeditions have been sent by the council to determine the temple’s status. Their reports have not been made public. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic)
In Kaas City, normal citizens could live without any issue. So I am not convinced that entire Dromund Kaas represents a nexus of dark side energy. If this would be the case then their would have been no need to officially confirm Dark Temple as a nexus of dark side energy. Common sense, bro.
Of-course, I am considering the situation of Dromund Kaas during TOR era, not in the future eras. During the era of Luke, Dromund Kaas was an abandoned planet and it is not clear what happened there in a long span of time. I know about FOTJ based lore, haven't taken much interest in it but have the sources.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A purely personal decision unfortunately as they rest on the same level of canon. The fact of the matter is if the Jedi Exile can take on an entire academy of Sith Asassins and Dark Jedi (literally hundreds) defeat Darth Sion three times and then go on to defeat Darth Traya - both incredibly powerful Force Users - in arguably the strongest dark side nexus in the galaxy, then she should be more than capable of taking on one lone DC member - whose abilities fail to stack up to that of Darth Traya. Yet she cannot. This is a canonical inconsistency that we the fans, have been forced to reconcile. Taking into account of course that in a contest of knowledge Drew is royally trumped by the character's creators. KOTOR II is the superior source.You must have been preparing this for some time, because is an age since you last abadoned that discussion, a discussion I'd be happy to continue.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yes, lol, I pretend to pay attention. Petty attacks at my credibility and no match for strong cohesive arguments that you are sorely lacking in.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Darth Caedus is stronger than the Sith Emperor, until you can adequately prove otherwise, insofar you have failed to do so.
Anyways, you may point out a thread in the official SWTOR forum in which I should give this argument a try.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And of course Vader is more powerful than Revan. He is 80% the strength of Sidious, power who Revan is evidently dwarfed by.
Also, I really doubt that Sidious dwarfed Revan in power as of ROTJ. Revan became the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy or possibly history during the Mandalorian Wars (Jedi Order's most powerful champion), he further grew in power later on as evident from his performance inside the Star Forge, quick dismissal of Darth Nyriss and an explicit statement in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan. Centuries later, Revan was able to hold his own against an Imperial Strike Team in a battle after enduring torture of unprecedented scale; in this battle, Revan demonstrated sufficient raw power to pour multiple asteroids on the platform while dueling the Strike Team.
You do realize how heavy even a small asteroid is?
Well, check this revelation:
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, lmao "well over a ton"? You are aware that even one of those meteors would weigh dozens, perhaps hundreds of tons? Don't believe me? Well look:This is the Hoba Meteorite found near Grootfontein. It is considerably smaller than the meteors Revan was raining down on the Strike Team. It's estimated at 70 tons. 🙂
---
*Darth Traya is also more powerful then Meetra Surik, confirmed in Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia.
Originally posted by Nephthys1. Thanks, I'll put them to good use.
1. Ok:And theres also XSUPREMEXSKILLZ's Second Wrath respect thread.
Most of the feats I mentioned are not clearly laid out, I wrote them in a slightly different format, but I can assure you almost all of them occur in cutscenes or scripted, storied events. The only one that isn't is the Barsen'thor tanking the explosion, but that's needed to move the story along and the questlog confirms that you need to do it. I don't use gameplay.
2. I think Kreia was trying to motivate the Exile to chase her down to Malachor. Just another lie. The Force Bond wouldn't kill her if Kreia died I don't think.
3. But that can't be said for sure. Is it not possible something happened with the collapse of the Empire to create it? Maybe they got desperate and used a powerful ritual. Maybe the Republic massacred them again. Maybe Vitiate died there and the power he absorbed from Nathema was released and his death created a nexus like Sidious' did. Who can say for sure.
Wasn't it Vitiate's experiments that corrupted the planet? I know he created Akure with his power.
4. Oh, are you just talking about the Sith in Kotor 2? I thought you were saying that all Force Drain in star wars was the same technique.
It seems to utilise bonds to me:
"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."
This is why Nihilus dominates all around him. He instinctively forms bonds with everyone, siphoning their will and power in the exact same way the Exile does. That's why she's so good at the technique, instinctively and easily able to perform it in the same way she forms bonds. The Council confirms that the Exile's Force bond ability is the true threat she represents.
Or at least that's my impression.
2. I have to disagree, considering in the DS version Kreia makes an example of its potency by stabbing herself in the stomach, rending the Exile unconscious from pain, and prior to that the Exile feels the pain of having her hand cut off. At the very least the Exile would have felt every blow she dealt on Traya i.e. severing her second hand.
And yes it was probably a lie, but only because Traya knew the bond had been broken. TBH I think it gives more weight to the notion of "betrayal" - that Traya had no choice but to betray the Exile (there must always be a Darth Traya yadda yadda) to break the bond which ultimately was holding the Exile back.
3. Unfortunately, and I mean no offense, those assumptions would be fanonical. The fact of the matter is in existing continuity there is no record of the planet being used prior to the fall of the Sith Empire, there is only one instance in which a supposed battle took place during the New Sith Wars, but nothing more. No sources that point towards the planet being bathed in dark side energy.
Given that absence of evidence, and the absence of any evidence that points to the planet not being enshrouded in DS energy (which the HoloNet practically confirms) we must assume that the concentration of DS energy on the planet was the same in the post-ROTJ era as it was in the TOR era.
Which is logical, considering it was occupied by both the Ancient Sith, and Vitiate's Empire, and during that period exposed to the presence of Sith Lords and their rituals. If anything it would have weakened during the many years it lay abandoned.
Anyway, in regards to how this is, LS wielders have be known to experience difficulty in wielding the Force when exposed to concentrated DS nexuses, so it is plausible to assume the Jedi Exile was weakened when on the planet's surface.
4. Hmm, Wookieepedia seems to believe that too. However I cannot reconcile that with the definition of Force Bonds:
Common to occur between Jedi Masters and their apprentices, a Force bond, also known as Force chain or Jedi kinship, was a link through which two Force-sensitives could influence each other. It allowed the communication of feelings, thoughts and images across distances and granted greater coordination in battle. Through such connections the Force easily flowed, sometimes allowing one's will to bolster the strengths of the other, or possibly to draw upon their strengths.
Nihilius did a lot of things, but he did not make any friends.
And it is stated that the Exile, and nobody else, had a predisposition towards it. Nihilus as far as we know, and the rest of the academy, did not, if they did then the Exile would not have been stressed to be unique.
And it was because of the Exile's ability to create Force Bonds, along with her existence as a wound in the Force which effectively made her accidentally drain the energy of her companions, she tethered them to her self with a Force bond, and the wound naturally used that tether to siphon their force energies.
Regardless, this doesn't change the facts, it doesn't matter if you use Force Bonds, wounds, whatever, ultimately you are doing the same thing, siphoning the living force from another being. And given that if you can prevent your energies from being siphoned, you should be immune to all types of Force drain.
Though I'd hazard a guess and say its a question of willpower, considering it would involve resisting someone effectively tugging at your life force - a push/pull process if you will - so I expect that if Nihilus say tried to drain Revan, the sheer magnitude of his "pulling" power would overwhelm Vader's ability to resist.
Originally posted by Nephthys
How does he not beat Dooku? He's faster and stronger than Dooku is in lightsaber abilty, his lightning is vastly more powerful, his telekinesis is more devastating in its destructive power and to my knowledge he has greater Force shields.This is likewise for Exar Kun. The only area I'd say Kun has on Bane is sorcery and the power of his amulet.
Malgus performed better against a more powerful team in Swtor. I don't see Revan force choking 3 members while dueling the 4th.
Originally posted by EmperordmbWell prepare to disagree...
I pretty much agree with everything Neph just said.
1. Faster and stronger? Dooku was able to keep up for a time with Grand Master Yoda, whose speed rivaled that of Darth Sidious - a Force wielder who was able to obliterate three powerful Jedi masters in seconds because he was just too damn fast. He was also able to easily hold of General Grievous, who could strike if I recall 20 something times a second at speeds fast enough to almost overwhelm Kenobi, THE master of the defensive style.
That, at its very least, surpasses Bane's rain dance feat.
He also has plenty of "moved like a blur blah blah blah" feats.
2. Lightning vastly more powerful? Bane has been recorded to have killed two non-Force sensitives with lightning, which left their bodies presumably charred and smoking.
Dooku on the other hand as killed twice that many non-Force sensitives and twice that many minor-Force sensitives (Dathomirian zabraks) - admittedly there is no evidence that they're bodies were charred, but they were killed just as quickly. If we concentrate that energy down to just two non-Force sensitives however, I have no doubt they would have received similar injuries. And on top of that Dooku has incapacitated, with but a burst of lightining, Ventress, Anakin and Sora Bulq - all powerful Force Users.
This is an accolade in particular Bane has failed to match.
4. Telekinesis more devasting? Bane's most impressive feat was collapsing the roof of the Lehon temple on Kas'ims head. However he required substantial time to build up that energy and was on a potent dark side nexus - and after he was exhausted.
Dooku on the other hand, was able to take hold of and collapse a massive iron structure easily the same weight as the roof of the Lehon Temple, with consummate ease. This seems to be to imply that Dooku would have been able to do what Bane did, but with greater ease and without the need for a DS nexus.
Indeed, considering Dooku can Force grip/choke Ventress, Kenobi and Quinlan Vos straight up, if Dooku had been fighting against Kas'im - there wouldn't have been a duel at all.
Indeed, considering it is on a DS nexus. Dooku could have easily done the following:
"Don't patronize me," Asajj said coldly.
Dooku looked around. "Or what?"
Her face went pale.
Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. "Please," she said. "Don't."
"It doesn't feel good, does it? Like sharp stones in your throat and chest." Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. "It's the blood vessels I hate, "Dooku said. "The way they stretch inside like balloons about to pop."
"P-p-p-please..."
"But worse anything is the memories," he said, more softly still. "They crowed around, like flies on meat. Every despicable thing, every petty vice, every little act of spite." A cruel, strange quiet stretched out as Ventress panted on the stone floor. Rain ticked against the window glass, and the Count's voice went dark and far away. "All the things you should have stopped, but didn't, and nothing will ever be right again. And the things you've done," he whispered. "By the pitless stars, the things you've done..."
The comm on Dooku's desk beeped. He shook his head, like a man waking from a dream. "The Troxan delegation is at the door."
Ventress crawled to her feet. Her face was bruised and her cheeks were wet with tears. Both pretended not to notice.
--Taken from Dark Rendevous
Considering Ventress likely surpasses Kas'im in terms of Force Power.
Need proof? I'll gladly oblige. When confronted by Quinlan Vos, a powerful Force User and accomplished duelist. Dooku did the following:
In a remarkable demonstration of his formidable dark-side abilities, the Jedi-turned-Sith Lord Count Dooku directs his powers toward the Jedi Quinlan Vos. Levitating his adversary and choking him in a telekinetic stranglehold, Dooku simultaneously relieves Vos of his lightsaber.
Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded
And then, when confronted by Sora Bulq, who may I note is almost identical to Kas'im in power and ability, he engaged him in a brief duel before blasting him with Force Lightning that knocked him unconscious. Simply put, he dominated them, and he would have done the same to Kas'im - especially when empowered by a Nexus. Yet Bane was forced to engage Kas'im in a lengthy lightsaber duel he almost lost.
5. Greater Force Shields? We lack comparable feats so can't comment.
So to correct your claim, Dooku is faster and stronger than Bane, his lightning is equal if not superior, and his telekinesis is more devastating in both destructive power and ability to attack Force wielders.
Finally some general accolades:
He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order' s twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder.
Source: Revenge of the Sith
The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure.
Source: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Dooku has become one of the Force's most powerful practitioners...
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3640078-9139540002-33343.jpg
In general, Dooku is underestimated grossly as a Force User, despite being the prodigy of the Jedi Order in his day. I put this down to him being reserved in his use of Force powers, he does nor more than what is necessary - his is economic in his use of powers. But he is certainly more powerful than Darth Bane.Source.
