Manhattan vs Reeve’s Superman vs Thor vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is the point I have been making.

His ability is not like a grenade. It is, for all intents and purposes, magic. Unless they have shown specific resistance to that kind of magic, they will not have immunity to it. The only one that can come close is Norinn Radd but he's a mortal being that can be killed like any other (regular humans almost did that, in the film...humans). Let me put it a different way: it would be like me claiming that Dr. Manhattan can pick up Thor's hammer. Dr. Manhattan cannot magically gain an override for the magic enchantment on the hammer. That's stupid. The same with Silver Surfer: he cannot gain a magical resistance to Dr. Manhattan's vaping ability.

Even if everyone makes a case for Norinn Radd being able to affect Manhattan's body (unlikely), Manhattan can just reform an infinite number of times. He can even duplicate himself over and over and over.

So let's explore this for a bit: pretend Silver Surfer can resist Dr. Manhattan's vaping ability. So then Dr. Manhattan just duplicates himself until he has the sufficient power to over come Silver Surfer's resistance. Arguing against this particular point is stupid. Why? If you think that Silver Surfer can resist Dr. Manhattan's ability no matter how many Dr. Manhattan's are exerting it against him, you commit the no-limits fallacy. Since Dr. Manhattan seems to be able to duplicate himself, instantly, when needed, and he can see the future, he will know exactly how many to make of himself as soon as the fight starts...this is assuming, of course, that Silver Surfer has a resistance to Dr. Manhattan's ability which I do not believe is true.

Wow you finally put a scenario together! This is your best post on this thread.

Originally posted by juggerman
I agree with you DDM but there is no proof that Doc multiplying himself would increase the power output. If all the copies are pulling from the same source then the power would actually decrease with each copy. Kinda like Tien in DBZ.

Thoughts?

They are each separate, corporeal, entities. Each free thinking and operating on their own. This duplication thing works for Manhattan because he's godlike in consciousness: he's aware of all of him self at the same time as them all being separate beings from him. In fact, there is no "real" copy of him running around. They are all him. The closest thing to the "real" world and what I think inspired this is the concept of the Trinity: separate beings acting on their own but technically the same being.

Edit - I should note that in Tien's case, he is splitting his "spirtual power" known as Ki equally among his copies. Whereas Dr. Manhattan is transmuting matter and forming a complete living being to make a copy of himself. It's a clone rather than a division.

Edit 2 - And here's what Manhattan uses to disintegrate matter:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/

It's functionally magic because it does not exist in the real world.

LOL "functionally magic" 🙄 Surfer's power cosmic is "magic" too uh? Superman's powers are "magic"? neither are possible or exist in the real world.

Spiderman and electro are lv 8 sorcerors!!1

Originally posted by Squirtle
LOL "functionally magic" 🙄 Surfer's power cosmic is "magic" too uh? Superman's powers are "magic"? neither are possible or exist in the real world.

Ummm...yes. Their powers are practically magical, too.

Problem?

Problem is they are NOT magical, you're making it sound cooler than it is. "OMG! how Surfer can deal with teh magikz!" 😕

Bullshit movie science it is, not magic. It may seem a small difference, but they're completely different animals trope-wise.

Originally posted by Squirtle
Bullshit movie science it is, not magic. It may seem a small difference, but they're completely different animals trope-wise.

And there it is. Your protestations resulted in a concession. You can't delete your concession, either: I have quoted it in my post. Well, this "debate" went rather quickly.

🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
They are each separate, corporeal, entities. Each free thinking and operating on their own. This duplication thing works for Manhattan because he's godlike in consciousness: he's aware of all of him self at the same time as them all being separate beings from him. In fact, there is no "real" copy of him running around. They are all him. The closest thing to the "real" world and what I think inspired this is the concept of the Trinity: separate beings acting on their own but technically the same being.

Edit - I should note that in Tien's case, he is splitting his "spirtual power" known as Ki equally among his copies. Whereas Dr. Manhattan is transmuting matter and forming a complete living being to make a copy of himself. It's a clone rather than a division.

Edit 2 - And here's what Manhattan uses to disintegrate matter:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/

It's functionally magic because it does not exist in the real world.

Interesting theory but can I be proven one way or the other? I'm honestly asking.

Originally posted by juggerman
Interesting theory but can I be proven one way or the other? I'm honestly asking.

It's what the wiki said regarding his cloning ability.

Since he has several working on building a reactor (with transmutation and telekinesis) and several working on Silk Spectre's cl*t, it holds true that they independently think/operate. But that's not saying much when Manhattan seems to have a near unlimited intelligence/consciousness due to his non-local understanding of time.

In the films his clones seemed to be automonous of each other, yet all sharing the same thoughts/aware of each other.

Why he had 3 clones finger-banging Silk while another was busy working on the device, yet he said something like "I was there with you" when she raged.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's what the wiki said regarding his cloning ability.

Since he has several working on building a reactor (with transmutation and telekinesis) and several working on Silk Spectre's cl*t, it holds true that they independently think/operate. But that's not saying much when Manhattan seems to have a near unlimited intelligence/consciousness due to his non-local understanding of time.

Gotcha

1. Manhattan
2. Reeve
3. Surfer
4. Thor

I will vote for Reeve due to his absolutely cartoony style. I mean mind eraser kiss, blue eye lasers that repair damage, breathing in space and allowing Lois to as well? He would probably fart and trans mutate the others into crickets or something stupid like that

Originally posted by Squirtle
Problem is they are NOT magical, you're making it sound cooler than it is. "OMG! how Surfer can deal with teh magikz!" 😕

Bullshit movie science it is, not magic. It may seem a small difference, but they're completely different animals trope-wise.

Powers given to someone in a fictional, science-like manner that allow them to do almost anything they want with almost no limits are functionally magic. They were never explained, and are therefore impossible to understand. There were never restrictions put on them, which means they have no weakness. It may be a different trope, but it behaves he exact same way as someone who reality bends using magic.

Surfer was owned and downed by much less in FF4, Doom stacked with the boards powers was curb stomped by Johnny with all 4 powers. DM powers would curb stomp the silver surfer, doom and the FF4 all at once. If Johnny with the 4 stacked powers went up against DM, they would be cleaning his blood off the ground like everyone else's.

I don't even know how we are still debating if DM can hurt SS or not, Doom had his and the boards powers stacked and got wrecked. SS could barely make it to Galactus without Johnny helping him to fly up there and then has to go suicidal with an energy attack that would do nothing to DM but make him reform and then SS is KO and get vaporized. DM has so much Psionic power and matter manipulation power no one is on this level, stacked with his basically unlimited other powers he has to chose from.

Pointless argument.

The Doctor Always Wins

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Mayking some1s post luk lyke dis dont mayk you sound smart or rite lol

Powers given to someone in a fictional, science-like manner that allow them to do almost anything they want with almost no limits are functionally magic. They were never explained, and are therefore impossible to understand. There were never restrictions put on them, which means they have no weakness. It may be a different trope, but it behaves he exact same way as someone who reality bends using magic.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit 2 - And here's what Manhattan uses to disintegrate matter:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/

Originally posted by dadudemon
All of this is useless circular drivel. When my reply is simply, "No, that's wrong, it works and he vaporizes stuff", then you can tell that you have no content in your post.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Why don't you quote the whole thing instead of trolling?

Originally posted by dadudemon

Hint: there is quite a bit of difference in what I said and what you said. You'll have to to better than a strawman to debate with me.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Sir, I do believe I destroyed you, yet again. I am better at your own game than you are. You must get angry and frustrated when you try to troll when I'm around. I constantly turn everything you do on its head and make you dance like a fool.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He was a being comprised of matter.

And the final score is:

Epicurus: +10^googol
Dadudemon: -10^googol

You lose. I win. Suck on it. 13

Originally posted by Epicurus
He uses KMC's Movie Discussion Forums to disintegrate people? 😕

That sounds non-canon.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That sounds non-canon.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong

Originally posted by Epicurus
That would mean that pretty much every superpower in fiction is magic. Everything from the Lizard's healing factor to Quicksilver's superspeed.

The point of dadudemon's (and my) posts are that you cant put your own limits on these peoples powers just because you believe they should behave a certain way. For example, I remember someone trying to argue earlier in this thread that Reeves superman cant be manipulated on a molecular level and arguing that the Doctors powers wouldn't work because its not magic, which isn't true.