Manhattan vs Reeve’s Superman vs Thor vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Powers given to someone in a fictional, science-like manner that allow them to do almost anything they want with almost no limits are functionally magic.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
They were never explained, and are therefore impossible to understand.

Wrong again, they were (with movie bullshit-physics), and it's very easy to understand them, whitin it's fictional context.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
There were never restrictions put on them, which means they have no weakness.

Wrong, yes there were, and they HAVE.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
It may be a different trope, but it behaves he exact same way as someone who reality bends using magic.

But It doesn't. This kind of "debate" of yours is boring and pointless, come back at me with real arguments, like... arguments with some kind of actual support from the movies?

Originally posted by Squirtle
Wrong, they're not, not even trope-wise.

Wrong again, they were (with movie bullshit-physics), and it's very easy to understand them, whitin it's fictional context.

Wrong, yes there were, and they HAVE.

But It doesn't. This kind of "debate" of yours is boring and pointless, come back at me with real arguments, like... arguments with some kind of actual support from the movies?

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Yes, they are.

No, Manhattan's (or Superman, Spiderman, Wolverine... should I go on?) powers are NOT similar in nature to the likes or... Gandalf or Harry Potter. Not at all.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Yes, they are.Lets see you explain the exact physics behind how Doctor Manhattans powers work.

You want me to explain with REAL physics their powers? 🙄 what are you a troll? pay attention: WHITIN their universes, those powers have a scientific explanation, in Manhattan's case it's quantum manipulation (given by the intrinsic field experiment). See? is not really hard to understand.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
A weakness? With the exception of possibly diluting his vision of the future, which none of the contenders can do, no they haven't. And even if any of them could, it wouldn't change the outcome of this fight in the slightest.

That limit was real, not "possibly". He also couldn't have stopped all the nukes, he wasn't omniscient, he couldn't create life, he couldn't heal cancer... we don't know all of his limits, the point is he HAS limits, and unless you come with some stupid no-limits fallacy, is not MY job to prove negatives. To summarize:

Fact 1: he wasn't a mage
Fact 2: he has on-screen displayed limits

Harry Potter magic is basically just different science, to be fair.

It has explicitl laws and limitations. Much different than the likes of the Istari from LotR.

Shouldn't have mentioned HP, because is not the best example, but still, Harry Potter's magic is very different from "science", so different that it almost count as plain magic.
Dr. Manhattan, Spiderman, Wolverine, etc on the other side, while requiring suspension of disbelief are all grounded to reality (and this is important: they are meant to), explanations are given and often required for the plot.

Guy 1: Hey Manhattan is teleporting, what the ****??
Guy 2: Hey guy, relax, he control the quantums and stuff and there's this quantum tunneling shit, you know? That's how he
teleportz.

Guy1: Hey, how the **** Ducklifors works?
Guy2: Uh... relax, it's magic dude! 😂

The only difference between HP-type magic and Manhattan-type physics-defying science is that HP Wizards have never actually studied magical energy on a scientific level, don't know what it exactly is, and thus call it magic.

Magic is just an alternate law of physics. And all possible laws of physics have a scientific structure behind them. If DARPA scientists studied an HP Wizard, they would have at the very least some kind of quantum theory behind it. It's literally impossible to say science doesn't apply to magic when magic is pretty much just an unidentified form of science

Not always is like that. Many times magic is linked to some "spiritual" dimention/entity which trascends our physical universe and it's laws.

So what is the purpose of this stupid argument?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So what is the purpose of this stupid argument?

I don't know, maybe I thought it was a silly thing to say that Manhattan is godlike in consciousness, his nature is akin to the Holy Trinity, and has magic powers, all in the same post?

To be honest, HP magic is more along the lines of genetic trait than a scientific device. Making it more akin to say, Chi/Ki of martial arts mythos like Dragonball or Street Fighter.

In the case of the Harry Potter universe, it is specifically genetic in nature, and not something one can aquire through training and study, merely refined by these endeavours.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Maybe, but to a much smaller point. Their powers aren't reality bending. They have clear cut limits and weaknesses. I'd say this applies more to people like HoM Scarlet Witch or Dr. Manhattan who can do literally anything they want/think despite their powers being biology or physics based. Its functionally magic.

Manhattan can't literally do anything. 😂 at you comparing him to the omniverse-collapsing Wanda. Scarlet Witch's powers are actually rooted in Chaos Magic and a combination of her mutant probability manipulation, as opposed to Manhattan who is a Captain Atom/Silver Surfer rip-off.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Lizard's healing factor creates matter out of nothing. So did Doom when he wielded the Silver Surfer's power(he conjured a solid cosmic spear in thin air).

Manhattan can't literally do anything. 😂 at you comparing him to the omniverse-collapsing Wanda. Scarlet Witch's powers are actually rooted in Chaos Magic and a combination of her mutant probability manipulation, as opposed to Manhattan who is a Captain Atom/Silver Surfer rip-off.

Every single one of the combatants besides Doc is composed of physical matter and energy. Surfer got KOed after blasting Galactus. Doc would never undergo physical exhaustion like that. Supes going superluminal will do nothing to stop his disintegration. Thor has yet to show that he lacks an intrinsic field, and given how SHIELD was able to weaponize Odin's cube, it's clear MCU magic is scientific in nature. Every single opponent here has a chance to be KOed except Doc.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Every single one of the combatants besides Doc is composed of physical matter and energy. Surfer got KOed after blasting Galactus. Doc would never undergo physical exhaustion like that. Supes going superluminal will do nothing to stop his disintegration. Thor has yet to show that he lacks an intrinsic field, and given how SHIELD was able to weaponize Odin's cube, it's clear MCU magic is scientific in nature. Every single opponent here has a chance to be KOed except Doc.

Given how Ozy managed to weaponize Doc's power, it's clear his "magic"( 😂 ) is also scientific in nature. So not sure what point you were trying to make bringing up that stupid SHIELD/Tesseract example. In fact, if you tried to count the number of times science has worked in conjunction with magic in general fiction, you'd go crazy.

Originally posted by Epicurus
The Surfer's attack was composed of an exotic source of energy though(Power Cosmic).

Was that ever mentioned in the film?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Doc never had to perform any feat wherein he created a Jupiter-sized explosion,

Was that ever in the film or are you using hyperbole?

You do realize that if that explosion was that huge, by earth, everything on earth including the earth would be destroyed, right?

Something is not adding up with what you keep saying....

Originally posted by Epicurus Given how Ozy managed to weaponize Doc's power, it's clear his "magic"( 😂 ) is also scientific in nature. So not sure what point you were trying to make bringing up that stupid SHIELD/Tesseract example. In fact, if you tried to count the number of times science has worked in conjunction with magic in general fiction, you'd go crazy. [/B]

Uhhhh, nope! That's not how Dr. Manhattan's power works. It is literally magic. Wanna know how I know? They used real particle physicists to help them get the science right. His power literally does not exist in the real world. It's magic. That Veidt (the imaginarily smartest human on earth), with the help of Dr. Manhattan, can replicate that magical ability does not mean anything other than a godlike being and an imaginarily smart person are capable of replicating a small portion of Dr. Manhattan's power.

Deal with it. 🙂

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16700-quantum-superheroes-the-science-of-watchmen.html#.U5d7gfldWPY

doc's powers were never even hinted at being magic. retard.

Looks like magic.

Works like magic.

It's magic.

Deal with it. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Looks like magic.

Works like magic.

It's magic.

someone from the 1800's would have said the same thing if someone handed them an ipad.

"looks like magic

works like magic

it's magic"

only they would have been wrong, as you are wrong. get it yet, chimpy or do you need it explained with colorful pictures?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
someone from the 1800's would have said the same thing if someone handed them an ipad.

"looks like magic

works like magic

it's magic"

only they would have been wrong, as you are wrong. get it yet, chimpy or do you need it explained with colorful pictures?

What part about "it's impossible in physics" did you not understand?

I bet you're the despicable type that gets buttmad over gay marriage.

"Don't call it gay marriage! Call them civil unions!"

Originally posted by focus4chumps
doc's powers were never even hinted at being magic. retard.

Not to get between you two guys' sword fight, but imo, Dr. Manhattan and his abilities would fall under what is known as "science fiction". That definition fits better than "magic", though magic isn't necessarily incorrect.

Science Fiction: fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component

Magic: a power that allows people (such as witches and wizards) to do impossible things by saying special words or performing special actions

an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source

Taken from merriam-webster.com