Because whilst Vos was severely injured/fatigued, two Morgukai warriors (both of which individually gave Tholme/Secura all they could handle, and became the genetic basis for Dooku's army), failed to penetrate his guard for pages on end until Vos beheaded one, giving the other an opening. Vos has also stomped two Dark Jedi on a nexus without even intending to kill them whilst they both went all out. Either of those feats, going by objectivity and evidence, are better than Darach's feat, even if only slightly.
And Kolar stomped Vos.
Originally posted by ILS
Because whilst Vos was severely injured/fatigued, two Morgukai warriors (both of which individually gave Tholme/Secura all they could handle, and became the genetic basis for Dooku's army), failed to penetrate his guard for pages on end until Vos beheaded one, giving the other an opening. Vos has also stomped two Dark Jedi on a nexus without even intending to kill them whilst they both went all out. Either of those feats, going by objectivity and evidence, are better than Darach's feat, even if only slightly.And Kolar stomped Vos.
I am sure that Vindican and Malgus would have field day with the mooks that you are trying to hype.
Satele Shan was a fully trained Jedi at the time of Return and she was a chump in comparison to both Malgus and Vindican during this time.
Originally posted by ILS
Because whilst Vos was severely injured/fatigued, two Morgukai warriors (both of which individually gave Tholme/Secura all they could handle, and became the genetic basis for Dooku's army), failed to penetrate his guard for pages on end until Vos beheaded one, giving the other an opening. Vos has also stomped two Dark Jedi on a nexus without even intending to kill them whilst they both went all out. Either of those feats, going by objectivity and evidence, are better than Darach's feat, even if only slightly.And Kolar stomped Vos.
Tholme and Secura, and those two Dark Jedi you're referring to, similarly never really established themselves to be particularly great either. You clearly have a very heightened view of the capabilities of Vos and his contemporaries. Aside from achieving an almost zone like state and being able to defeat Sora Bulq and Volfe Karkko, he gets dominated by every top tier guy he faces and even relative lightweights like K'Kruhk have been competetive with him under similar cirucmstances he was in when facing Agen.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDTholme stomped something like seven anzati Force sensitives who had pretty decent training, and Aayla scraped a win over Aurra Sing, who is "one of the deadliest beings in the galaxy", has given TPM Qui-Gon/Kenobi bother ect.
And what is so impressive about Tholme and Secura?I am sure that Vindican and Malgus would have field day with the mooks that you are trying to hype.
ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAh, yes, I've seen that before but I actually overlooked the "even before the great war" part. Hmm... this actually might make Malgus more skilled than I had him before, because of the years he had to improve during the war.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: EncyclopediaSatele Shan was also a well-trained Jedi at the time of the events of Return, and she was utterly outclassed.
Originally posted by ILS
Tholme stomped something like seven anzati Force sensitives who had pretty decent training, and Aayla scraped a win over Aurra Sing, who is "one of the deadliest beings in the galaxy", has given TPM Qui-Gon/Kenobi bother ect.ok
I believe Aayla defeated Aurra Sing in a conventional lightsaber duel, which isn't really all that impressive considering Aurra Sing is typically dangerous when using the tricks and weapons of a Bounty Hunter and is basically untrained in the Jedi arts as far as I know. I don't think many would expect a group of Anzati warriors to be a match for a Jedi Master. Still not seeing how these characters, compared to elite Jedi Masters, in any way stand out.
Originally posted by ILS
Tholme stomped something like seven anzati Force sensitives who had pretty decent training, and Aayla scraped a win over Aurra Sing, who is "one of the deadliest beings in the galaxy", has given TPM Qui-Gon/Kenobi bother ect.ok
As for Secura, she was just a padawan at the time of her confrontation with Vos. On top of this, she had also suffered from amnesia earlier and did not remembered much about her knowledge of Jedi arts. She had to be retrained in the ways of the Jedi afterwards prior to her ascension to Knighthood. She dealt with Sing much later, during her prime.
Nice try at concealing the context and ground realities of the characters that you chose to hype. Next time, try to be more open and honest.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDOf course not 🙄
That level of competence is expected from (any) Jedi Master. It is not an impressive feat by Jedi standards.As for Secura, she was just a padawan at the time of her confrontation with Vos. On top of this, she had also suffered from amnesia earlier and did not remembered much about her knowledge of Jedi arts. She had to be retrained in the ways of the Jedi afterwards prior to her ascension to Knighthood. She dealt with Sing much later, during her prime.
Nice try at concealing the context and ground realities of the characters that you chose to hype. Next time, try to be more open and honest.
Who mentioned her confrontation with Vos (they had two, by the way)? I referenced Vos fighting the two Morgukai, whose feats stem from their performances against Aayla and Tholme. Not once did I mention Vos fighting Aayla as a feat, much less attempt to conceal context about the showing. Did you read my post?
Originally posted by ILS
Of course not 🙄Who mentioned her confrontation with Vos (they had two, by the way)? I referenced Vos fighting the two Morgukai, whose feats stem from their performances against Aayla and Tholme. Not once did I mention Vos fighting Aayla as a feat, much less attempt to conceal context about the showing. Did you read my post?
But Tholme's loss to Morgukai is not a feat of him, rather embarrassing development. As I pointed out before, Tholme isn't impressive by Jedi Master standards as a warrior. Secura was a Jedi Knight at this time but much earlier then her prime.
Not trying to imply that Morgukai are lame, they are competent. But a competent Jedi should be able to take them without difficulty.
Of course it isn't a feat for him, it's a feat for the Morgukai. And sorry, but just asserting that the characters I'm debating for are unimpressive isn't really an argument.
When do you have Aayla's prime, exactly? I don't see what relevance that has. She was at the same level of capability when she fought both the Morgukai and Aurra.
In your opinion - I'm just going by feats, not what I think a "competent Jedi" should be able to do.
Originally posted by ILS
Of course it isn't a feat for him, it's a feat for the Morgukai. And sorry, but just asserting that the characters I'm debating for are unimpressive isn't really an argument.When do you have Aayla's prime, exactly? I don't see what relevance that has. She was at the same level of capability when she fought both the Morgukai and Aurra.
In your opinion - I'm just going by feats, not what I think a "competent Jedi" should be able to do.
Vos's performance against Morgukai is comparable to Darach's performance against Sith Lords? You kidding? This is my point.
A reasonably competent Jedi should be able to take Morgukai. The real champions among the Jedi would absolutely stomp them.
Vos have nothing on Darach. Same goes for Kolar.
Nobody's saying the Morgukai are overly unimpressive; they're clearly well trained and highly dedicated to combat, and have useful tricks against Jedi such as the use of cortosis equipment and weaponry, but the fact remains that they are not Jedi or Sith/Dark Jedi, they're not even Force Sensitive as far as I know. The default position is naturally that they aren't comparable to high level, elite Jedi Masters. Quite frankly all you've managed to do for Quinlan Vos and co. is establish a vague hierarchy of mediocrity.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDok
I am keeping a lid on the magnitude of hype that you bestowed to Vos and Kolar in this thread.Vos's performance against Morgukai is comparable to Darach's performance against Sith Lords? You kidding? This is my point.
A reasonably competent Jedi should be able to take Morgukai. The real champions among the Jedi would absolutely stomp them.
Vos have nothing on Darach. Same goes for Kolar.
Er, I guess. Vindican is featless and Malgus only has an accolade, albeit a pretty good one. The Morgukai have decent dueling feats, better than what Vindican has going for him and more than an accolade can provide. What makes it especially impressive is that Vos had been fighting for hours prior, survived a ship crash, was stabbed through the torso by numerous shuriken, and was using a lightsaber form (Ataru) which is poor against multiple opponents, and still managed to hold his own, and end up killing one of them.
You keep throwing around your own estimations of how good characters are in relation to what "a reasonably competent Jedi" or a "master Jedi" could do. I don't really care for this.
Of course the real champions of the Jedi would trash the Morgukai. You're missing the point - Vos held his own against them under very poor circumstances, and to boot, Darach couldn't be considered one of the best duelists around either.