Agen Kolar vs Kao Cen Darach

Started by S_W_LeGenD5 pages

Originally posted by ILS
Correct.

Morgukai are as good as Sith Lords? 😂

Originally posted by ILS
Let's see.. deflection is irrelevant, lightning is irrelevant, giving Darach a decent fight doesn't help Darach in the feats department, and.. Darach isn't special despite his supreme sophistication. That covers that.

This is actually Straw Man.

Irrelevant compared to what?

And Darach isn't special because you said so? SWTOR developers wasted millions on depicted an average joe, right?

Originally posted by ILS
Straw man

No, its a reminder that Vindican isn't a mere apprentice or padawan. He is Sith Lord and this means something. It is not wise to compare mooks with Sith Lords.

Originally posted by ILS
I meant what I said. And another straw man - I didn't say it was meaningless. And I "conveniently" didn't mention it because the only reason Malgus is being mentioned is to discuss Darach's skill - not Malgus'. You keep bringing up irrelevant points about other characters. Try focusing on the thread.

Another Straw Man from you actually. You drunk? If yes then get back to me when you are sober because right now you are not making an iota of sense or able to follow the flow of the debate and reasoning behind a presented point.

Malgus is much stronger and superior warrior then Vos and Kolar even as of Return.

Originally posted by ILS
Once again, I mean what I said. And again, irrelevant point about irrelevant characters.

You mean what you said? Should I give a damn?

Present a valid argument or concede. I don't appreciate arguments for the sake of arguments and/or baseless arguments in my debates.

Again, explain to me what battle Vos was busy participating in before he confronted Morgukai? He arrived on Kintan and used the Force to bolster Secura during her confrontation with Morgukai from a distance and faced some droids. Their wasn't any grand battle that Vos was participating that really drained him of his energy by the time he confronted Morgukai.

Originally posted by ILS
It's not a non-factor just because your argument is benefited from it being so.

If Vos had defeated a powerful Force-user such as a Sith Lord, you would have an argument. So far, you have nothing concrete for a valid argument in favor of Vos.

Morgukai aren't Sith Lords and Vos managed to kill only one, he got shot by the other whom Secura killed to save her Jedi Master. Vos would have perished, if his apprentice had not arrived on time to save him. So much for his supposed victory over Morgukai. As I pointed out earlier, try to be more honest in your assertions.

Originally posted by ILS
Yeah..... I was aware of this. Doesn't counter my argument.

Earlier, you said that Darach isn't among the best swordsman of his era. You have been proven wrong, not surprisingly.

Originally posted by ILS
...great. Although what I find funny is my apparent use of "lame arguments and extreme subjectivity", despite you presuming the use of a lightsaber and saberstaff at the same time elevates Darach as high as you think it does.

It actually does.

A specialized variant of the iconic Jedi weapon, double-bladed lightsabers utilize two emitters within a single lengthened hilt to generate blades at each end. These weapons allow the Jedi to defend and strike rapidly in combat. But for all the lethal efficiency, double-bladed lightsabers are difficult to wield and require specialized training to avoid risking severe personal injury. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Not only Darach utilized a double-bladed lightsaber in combat masterfully but he went a step above this by coupling it with another lightsaber and still being able to use both in masterful ways. Such level of combat ability is really telling about combat prowess and mastery of Darach in lightsaber dueling arts.

Neither Vos and nor Kolar match Darach in expertise in lightsaber dueling arts. Deal with it.

Originally posted by ILS
Yeah.... being able to use a lightsaber/staff combo elevates Darach into the upper echelons of duelists in the mythos. Definitely.

It does. Deal with it.

Originally posted by ILS
Well, Vos has decent power showings like levitating a fairly large boulder over a far distance for a long time, even after being stabbed, and using protection/barrier to survive a ship crash and explosion, but I agree Darach's TK is likely above his. Kolar's use of the Force is pretty basic and unexplored. IMO though, Kolar will out-duel Darach before being hit by any multi-tonned starship components.

Right....

Kolar is so powerful and skilled that an Hutt intimidated him and some small beings overwhelmed him. He failed to arrest Vos and beat some defenseless mooks. Such power and skill indeed. 🙄

Darach is realistically on a different TIER in comparison to Kolar, much higher. And I am having serious doubt about your rationality and evaluation skills.

Morkugai that can drive off famous Jedi Masters are stronger than Sith Lords, yes.

What actual feats does Darach have other than the fight where he dies?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Morkugai that can drive off famous Jedi Masters are stronger than Sith Lords, yes.

They are equal to Sith Emperor I guess. 🙄

Fame doesn't implies skill and power.

A Sith Lord literally owned that Jedi Master whom Morkugai forced to flee.

Originally posted by Trocity
What actual feats does Darach have other than the fight where he dies?

Isn't the trailer enough?

And he died doing something. Not like fodder.

Originally posted by Trocity
What actual feats does Kolar have other than the fight where he dies?

Again, isn't the trailer enough?

He changed it into Kolar.

Oh, that.

He beat some thugs.

The difference is, Kolar was killed by the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Darach was slaughtered by an apprentice.

Dat TOR wank doe!

Originally posted by Trocity
The difference is, Kolar was killed by the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

It wasn't even a contest. Why bother highlighting it?

Originally posted by Trocity
Darach was slaughtered by an apprentice.

Dat TOR wank doe!


Some apprentice:

Even before the Great War, Malgus was widely regarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Empire. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They are equal to Sith Emperor I guess. 🙄

Fame doesn't implies skill and power.

A Sith [B]Lord literally owned that Jedi Master whom Morkugai forced to flee. [/B]

Said Sith Lord was the most powerful Jedi Master to rise in centuries, and was one of history's greatest Lords of the Sith, and consistently goes toe to toe with the Champion of the Order and the greatest foe the darkness has ever known. Getting owned by him is hardly a bad thing. I could just as easily lowball Tol Bragga because of how effortlessly he was dismissed by Vitiate, as if the latter was an average Sith Lord.

Hell, I could go on about how badly Kao was beaten by Malgus, too.

Fact of the matter is, the likes of the guy who took on two of these Morkugai Jedi Hunters at once was dominated by Agen Kolar--Kao and Vindican have little to compete with that.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Said Sith Lord was the most powerful Jedi Master to rise in centuries, and was one of history's greatest Lords of the Sith, and consistently goes toe to toe with the Champion of the Order and the greatest foe the darkness has ever known. Getting owned by him is hardly a bad thing. I could just as easily lowball Tol Bragga because of how effortlessly he was dismissed by Vitiate, as if the latter was an average Sith Lord.

I don't need a reminder about how good Count Dooku is. Sith Lords are typically very strong.

Getting owned by him is hardly a bad thing? What are your standards for bad?

By virtue of being a Jedi Master, he won't be a mook, but he is a mook by Jedi Order standards. He have no hype or feats to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Hell, I could go on about how badly Kao was beaten by Malgus, too.

Lot more happened in this duel earlier then what you mentioned. Malgus's victory didn't came easily.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Fact of the matter is, the likes of the guy who took on two of these Morkugai Jedi Hunters at once was dominated by Agen Kolar--Kao and Vindican have little to compete with that.

Oh yes, the same BS again.

Vos didn't beat both Morkugai, he killed only one but was overwhelmed by the other and was saved by his apprentice.

And I have the comic representing the clash between Kolar and Vos. Kolar actually failed in his mission irrespective of his boastings.

Here is one of the developments:

So powerful. 🙄

Darach soundly, took of Vincidan and even Malgus who would both stomp Kolar (who is basicly video game fooder in front of a top tier)

lol @ Vindican stomping Kolar.

The TOR wank in this thread is astounding. Even the trailer-fodder get wanked beyond all belief.

Originally posted by ILS
The TOR wank in this thread is astounding. Even the trailer-fodder get wanked beyond all belief.

No, PT wank in this thread is astounding.

Vindican is trailer fodder? 🙄

I accept your concession.

The best Vindican really has going for him is being the best apprentice of... Oh, what was his name? Darth Ikkoral or something? He was a flashpoint boss, Red Reaper I think.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The best Vindican really has going for him is being the best apprentice of... Oh, what was his name? Darth Ikkoral or something? He was a flashpoint boss, Red Reaper I think.

I remember Darth Ikkoral, very powerful, one of the best in the Empire.

Vindican was stalemating Darach until the latter acquired Shan's double-bladed lightsaber and masterfully utilized multiple blades to gain advantage. Darach had to perform incredibly sophisticated maneuvers to outduel Vindican. Therefore, Vindican is not incompetent but Darach is evidently extraordinarily competent in martial aspects of combat.

Another interesting revelation:

Master Satele studied under several different masters in her youth. Her childhood teacher was Ngani Zho, a wise and kind man who guided Satele's early development and showed her ways of the Force. As an adolescent, Satele trained with Battlemaster Kao Cen Darah. It was he who taught Satele to fight with a double-bladed lightsaber and guided her through the final trails to become a full-fledged Jedi Knight. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Satele Shan was actually a well-trained Jedi Knight as of Return. And yet, both Sith Lords utterly outclassed her.

Therefore, Return cinematic makes it clear that Vindican is well above well-trained Jedi Knights in competence and power.

I don't get the lowballing of Vindican. He is not the focus of Return cinematic, Malgus is.

In-fact, Malgus also seems like a looser in Hope cinematic, but this is an issue of representation. The Third Lesson literature makes it clear that Malgus was very powerful even as of Hope.

Vindican isn't incompetent or weak, it is just that he ran out of luck during Return.